Maschine 3.0

djapnrcpro
djapnrcpro Member Posts: 5 Member
edited December 2023 in Maschine

I would love a version of Maschine that allows the following:

Use inside DAW without KOMPLETE KONTROL connected. This can be a paid upgrade or free for those who own KK or the ability to control KK.

I want a slimmed-down version of Maschine that allows disabling of the sequencer and can be more used in a DAW like Battery but with the flexibility of Maschine.

Also a preset to run in a DAW without all that tedious routing that works sometimes and other times doesn't. The individual midi channel setup in a DAW is a pain.

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Comments

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod

    Also a preset to run in a DAW without all that tedious routing that works sometimes and other times doesn't. The individual midi channel setup in a DAW is a pain.

    If it doesn't always work then either doing something wrong or found a bug. You can just save a template for your DAW in order to not have to constantly go thru all the hassle.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor

    After 6+ months using maschine inside Bitwig 4 and now 5, I dont even use multiple maschine groups anymore because, despite all the knowledge I have now for routing and 3rd party scripting, its just too tedious and maximal to set up. It simply wont work (with numerous groups, in Bitwig) unless you use Driven By Moss scripts anyway, no matter how it is routed. Bitwig doesnt have any trouble routing anything else I use, but then again maschine is by far the most complex to route of any hardware or software I own.

    I would LOVE a slimmed down version of maschine, which makes for easier routing and removes the internal sequencer! That's a great suggestion, though I honestly doubt NI would even consider this. Making things more open or easier to use - more outside their ecosystem - isnt something they usually do. : /

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 369 Pro

    Same here, slimmed down Maschine Player for use in the DAW without sequencer and plugin hosting.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod

    I've routed Maschine in pretty much all DAW's including Bitwig and it worked fine... If you put a complex sequencer inside another complex DAW you have to tell them exactly how to communicate with each other. You gotta understand when to use "Sounds to MIDI Notes" or "Sounds do MIDI Channels" and all of the limitations of MIDI and Maschine.

    I don't own Bitwig but with a trial, I can point out where you're making mistakes if you upload a project.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 556 Guru

    A Maschine without the sequencer.. I have to wonder, is such a thing even Maschine anymore? Is it not easier just to use the DAW and the plugins then?

    There are tools you can use for converting Maschine expansions to other formats

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 369 Pro
    edited December 2023

    Standalone should have sequencer and all bells and whistles. We are talking about Maschine as a plugin in DAW. I think it should be streamlined as much as possible, basically an expansion player. I have 65 expansions, this is more than 2000 drum kits. No DAW has such selection available.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor

    Yeah, I had reached out to you on your youtube channel about it 6ish months ago. I also posted here, but the advice was always to use Moss's scripts. Ive spent hours researching and trying different routing methods - and yes, I understand "sounds to MIDI notes", etc, as I've understood for years. If there is a method that works in Bitwig 5.1, its not obvious to even someone who methodically tries every possible routing combo.

    The reason for the over-complexity in this is that the sequencer must be considered, yes, but I *dont use* the sequencer. Never have, never will. Im a DAW user. When Im routing sounds/groups, I shouldnt be forced to consider the sequencer, and I should be able to disable it entirely.

    Since you've routed multiple maschine groups in Bitwig (5.1?), do you have any info you can share on this? I havent seen 1 example of this done successfully inside Bitwig in 6 months.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor
    edited December 2023


    Replied to the wrong person, now it wont let me delete my comment??

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor

    Its the hardware? Why would you buy a maschine mk3 if you mostly care about the sequencing functions of maschine? Just buy maschine software standalone then. Maschine's sequencer is frustrating, limited, etc.

    I didnt buy my MK3 for the sequencer, I bought it to be a performance and control tool / drum pad. This is what I've always wanted it for. I should be able to toggle the sequencer off to simplify DAW routing and performance.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod
    edited December 2023

    Well... If you understand it then it should work, I just tried a trial for 5min and it does work fine.

    See for yourself (ignore the horrible music lol):

    3 Bitwig tracks sending MIDI to Maschine-Plugin, 1 for Drums, another for a Bass and another for some keys. Each with it's own MIDI channel, MIDI can be recorded from the controller (in Maschine Mode) directly to DAW and plays back fine...

    Moss scripts are for using controllers (from NI or others) to control BitWig, nothing to do with Routing Maschine-Plugin, it bypasses Machine SW altogether, so requires MIDI Mode.... no? At that point, you might aswell buy a generic MIDI 16 Pad controller as an MK3 for example would be a waste of money.

    Disabling the Sequencer would not change how Pad/Groups fundamentally operate.

    Since it's a demo/trial I can't save the project to send you to inspect.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod
    edited December 2023

    Not possible unless instruments/keyboard mode is also removed completely and then anyone who likes Pitched 808's, Snare rolls and such is left out. You're asking to remove 95% of the software.... Fine for me as a separate Option for those of you who only want Maschine to serve as a drum-kit-preset-thingy, but completely unacceptable to everyone else.

    Just use DrumKit Mode in MIDI IO Section, it's not its purpose but if all you want is a 1 Group kit player that does the job easily.

    IDk what kind of DAW you're using but there are millions of Kits out there... literally.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor


    I spent months trying to route even 2 maschine groups with full midi in/out to bitwig tracks, but I could only get sound but no midi. I watched half a dozen videos, made posts here and on KVR, and concluded that this just wasnt going to work. I have not tested it again since Bitwig 5.1, and the last time I did so was probably 4.x.

    If something changed in 5.0+, then this would be the reason, but it was not a simple matter of routing midi channels to/from and ensuring maschine group/sound configs were correct. I can build a DAW template for 16 maschine groups in/out in cubase from memory, no matter the complexity, and I understand all of this.

    I will test this again now, and come back to this thread.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod

    The last time i tried this was in the old forum, like 4 years ago, so no, nothing fundamentally changed in the new version to allow this. It's just MIDI, and BitWig has always had the same standard MIDI options all DAW have, the only DAW that behaves differently is Logic.

    Anyway, when you try feel free to ask questions, there's no reason to spend months on this.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor
    edited December 2023

    @D-One I can already see that your routing is different. (Different from videos, guides, etc, that exist across the internet)

    You have "maschine plugin" on instrument 1 track without a midi channel, you have no input device on instrument channel 2 set for midi 1, you have maschine2 set as input on instrument channel 3 set for midi 2, and maschine2 set as input on instrument channel 4 set for midi 3. I cant quite see - is "maschine plugin" a group, and are the others inside it? What are your Bitwig in/out midi settings? I dont see you actually playing notes live from maschine and those notes being written to the DAW's arranger. I just see already written midi playing back -- I can also do that.

    Edit: not working. This routing method does not work for me for even 1 single group. I cant see how you routed this from the clip above, and if you try recording those notes into Bitwig what happens? Do you hear sound + see the notes written into the arranger? I dont get that unless I create a second instrument channel which receives the midi output from the first instrument channel, no matter how Maschine itself is configured or routed.

    Any chance you could just route 1 single maschine group in/out of Bitwig, and expose exactly how you did it? This isnt working for me on 5.1. Im just using a single maschine group with a simple drumkit loaded into it for simplicity. Im using midi 1/midi all and standard group/sound input/output config. (The config you documented years ago in your original maschine routing thread)

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 328 Guru

    I think people really just want an "Expansion Player". Something like play series stuff, but for all of the expansions.

    Frankly, it would make a lot of sense for NI to create something like that.

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