Komplete Kontrol 3.0.0 - Is anyone else uninstalling it because it is unusable?

Maciej Repetowski

I have it installed, I’m not using it. No problem for me.

Before anyone asks, I use Kontakt, I wanted Kontrol keyboard to interact with Kontakt directly - I got my wish.

Back when I was using Maschine software as a DAW, integrated with Mk2 controller, I loved Play Assist functions and I’ve always wanted them in hardware. Once I get those implemented, I’ll be 100% happy with my Mk3 controller, as will be many other Kontakt users.

For me, Komplete Kontrol software is an unnecessary wrapper made to facilitate the access to NKS2 functions for other vendors.

In my opinion, NI should release SDK to allow virtual instruments to talk to Mk3 controllers directly (like with Kontakt), thus nullifying the need for KK completely.

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/164527#Comment_164527

I think that would be fine as an additional thing but the fact is there will always be a ton of developers who don't take it up, probably a lot less would implement it than those who have taken up NKS, so there will still be a need for Komplete Kontrol as it is the only way to potentially make any plugin controllable and NKS compatible using the keyboards.

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/164538#Comment_164538

Sure, I’m fine with KK software’s existence and development (if there will be any). Mine is just another point of view in this discussion.

It’s like Russian Babushka doll - NKS plugin vendor needs to make sure that their specific VI works with KK on both supported platforms. Then NI needs to make sure that KK containing that specific VI works within any commonly used DAW and/or standalone.

Surely one can use non NKS plugin within KK, but then one has to either convert hundreds of presets themselves or rely on Mr Jester’s services (or use PD NKS maps).

Direct communication between NKS2 VI and the controller would simplify this tremendously, IMHO.

At the moment, KK serves 3 functions:

• NKS librarian/browser
• Play Assist
• MIDI templates (only for Mk2 keyboards)

The last two will be implemented in hardware with Mk3, that leaves one function left, for me that’s a hint of what’s going to happen next.

I can be wrong about it, of course.

Kymeia

5 functions:

• NKS librarian/browser
• Plugin controller
• DAW controller
• Play Assist
• MIDI templates (for Mk2 keyboards)

For me hands-on plugin control has always been the priority

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/164555#Comment_164555

DAW control works without KK software with Mk3. As for plugin control, imagine installing Arturia synths and every single one talks to Mk3 keyboard directly and comes with all the patches pre-mapped as NKS2. No need for anything else. You open Pigments in your DAW and it works with Mk3 right away. Wouldn’t it be better than via KK?

OK, cross-searching patches by keywords within the whole NKS library - that would be amiss. So yes, KK could still be useful, I agree 👍

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/164558#Comment_164558

OK firstly I'm thinking of KK as the software hardware combo - I don't use them separately, without the hardware KK would be largely pointless to me.

Yes I can see a benefit from having the hardware directly control plugins but I wonder if that would sacrifice the customisability KK offers? Plus as I said I doubt as many devs would take it up as even those who take up NKS (and tbh support for that is patchy, some devs are NKS partners in name only eg Softube)

JesterMgee

Issue I see is the same as the issue we have at the moment and why KK solved it in the first place.

Take using Ableton for instance. With a small option added in the options.txt file you can have the first 128 parameters of a loaded VST plugin populate the VBST wrapper host and any control surface device can then control all that in the plugin. If you have a Push controller, you get something similar to the setup with KK where you can now page through controls and record anything you like without mapping a thing. Sounds great….

However there are major issues with this that KK solves:

The first issue is the order in which developers list their controls in the plugin. Often there is no attention to how controls are programmed in the plugin and you can find that these appear all over the shop when you have them mapped in a DAW. If you want to control the cutoff for a filter for instance, one plugin it could appear on page 1, another it's on page 15. There is no way to set a nice intuitive order.

The second issue is just labelling. Almost all plugins I have used have terribly unsuitable labels for displaying on hardware displays. Keeping in mind the ideal parameter label should be 8-12 characters to keep things looking neat and easily readable.

KK solved all this by allowing these shortfalls to be easily addressed but at the cost of having to have a "map". There are also the cases where many large or modular plugins don't offer host automation direct and need controls selected to be host controllable due to far too many being available.

So even a system where controls could be better arranged, this will still likely be unsuitable in how it works for most people to use efficiently.

The ONLY way plugins could ever have something like NKS2 as an in-plugin feature that could directly talk to hardware is if the NKS standard was opened up like VST is so everyone can use it for their plugins, hardware and software. Unlikely this will ever happen tho.

mickeyl

The whole issue of mapping has to be solved at another layer. It's conceptional wrong to do this on a closed sources proprietary IP layer owned by a software company. The right way to go is to incorporate it into a standard – that's what MIDI 2.0 and CLAP are about to achieve. And although they're tackling this from different angles, I'm pretty sure it would succeed, if it had enough momentum behind. Right now there are only a few companies jumping on the CLAP train.

The thing is… the moment a device like common parameter mapping and bidirectional self descriptive plugins become a standard, a whole unique selling point (USP) goes away, and companies don't like that.

JesterMgee

Standards in the world of audio are very slow to evolve. People get use to a certain way and through the likes of companies like NI moving things at absolute snails pace it's just one of those things you learn to make do with what you have instead of waiting out for change. Just look at the adoption of VST3 as a format, it ended up being so slow to adopt that even when Steinberg discontinued new licensing for VST2 it was still years (over a decade) after that point before some hosts even had VST3 compatibility and only when Apple released the M1 chip did it force companies to switch to VST3.

MIDI, again, we have Midi 2.0 and it's only been 40 years.

Problem will be the next generation of "producers" will not be using all these heavily deep synths with all this control available, it will be sample packs and romplers with likely automated AI tools that just build tracks without much more than a hum or a prompt. There will just be no real demand for any of that in 20 years time and none of us here will care by that stage either.

BIF

Just a timely reminder for people that the current version (at this writing Sunday night, 7/14) of KK is 3.2.1.

Also, we're due for a new update of KK, maybe coming this week or next. It's probably in Beta testing right now. God willing and the creek don't rise, it might have MIDI Template features in it.

I'm sure there will be announcements here in the forums when it reaches GA (General Availability). I do not know if a new MK3 firmware update will accompany it, but maybe @Matthew_NI can say a few words about this for us.