Should we cry?

GoliatGar

After Roland presenting 3.0 firmware update for its 404MK2 (launched 2 years ago)

My M+ is great piece of hardware but looot of missing stuff yet (example: automation edit…)

Maybe I’m wrong and I should think about my M+ as the OG drum machines /synths: it is what it is, no updates, just unleash your imagination 😃I’ll be happier with that mindset.

Percivale

Don't cry. Use it as a creative limitation to sharpen your ability. I too have a TR-8S which received a recent update and yeah I know what you meant

Jiglo

I think having the mindset of buying a product for what it can do now, rather than what you hope it could do someday is healthy when buying any product.

I've owned a 404, I didn't enjoy working with it. Plenty of others do though, but it's finding what works best for you and trying to be happy with it. Out of a room full of grooveboxes, i've been using the M+ almost exclusively since I bought one. It just has a magic combo of great sound quality, great features, great effects, great build quality, comfortable on my lap and being ridiculously easy to learn and create with. I'm making some of my best music with it and very quickly.

So that's how I look at mine. Now if they can improve it, that would be great, but right now I wouldn't swap mine for anything else.

Also, I still haven't mastered mine. I keep finding new things even after a year of heavy use which keep adding to the value, but i'm still very happy with the quality of music I was making soon after buying.

KJandKT

It’s going to be updated soon but yeah - think of the product and how great it is when you buy it…and it will always be a fantastic stand-alone Groove box and song creator

GoliatGar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/97612#Comment_97612

You totally right. Maybe I’m in the wrong mindset, but was really intoxicated with all the promises they did when it was launched. Also when I got my MK1, NI was updating the software a looot, with great improvements, same for 2.x versions, so when I jumped into the M+ I was expecting the same.

Great product with huge possibilities, but but back then it was way far from the competitors (no other product with that great workflow), now way behind.

D-One

I believe thinking about it as "it is what it is" or as like the OG devices is your best choice, if you don't accept that and keep hoping it gets whatever it is you prioritize (automation/modulation in your case) you might never really be happy with it... It's like relying on wining the lottery.

Assuming you're talking about modulation lane editing, copy, paste, move, curves, etc... that's quite a hard task to get right on a device like this, considering not even the computer version of Maschine has it after all these years.

Find workarounds, reevaluate your workflow and adapt it, embrace the limitations or.... move on to something else and be happy, music is not supposed to make anyone cry especially if it's your hobby.

GoliatGar

considering not even the computer version of Maschine has it after all these years

Not demanding any complex stuff, just automation discrete-event editing like in the computer version (the bullets in the automation lane), which will help not re-recording automation just for changing few values.

Regarding the fact of accepting the product as it is, there were a lot of promises made when the product was launched, which influenced in the buyer decision making on getting this product, so to be fair NI needs to get there.

Of course when anyone buys this device, they buy it having in mind the product will be evolved, not only because competitors do, but also because it's what they announced, and what they gave to the users in the previous versions. And not only evolved, but also fixing minor/major issues, so the product is maintained at least in a certain lifecycle.

M+ just hit 3 years of life, with a shameful maintenance in its early life. The title of this post is "should we cry? latest 404Mk2 update to 3.0" (less than 3 years old product) that serves me to shout loud that we've been abandoned as users, or at least that is my feeling when I see all the updates the competitors receive (look into the MPCs, or even best example: the Force!!!).

Don't take me wrong, I'm not just a hater throwing ****** on NI. I'm just sharing my feelings after being a Maschine user since MK1, enjoying the platform, tons of hours spent on making music on it, and enjoying it a looot. Then I've bought the M+, but never feel "The future of sound" again.

Even you @D-One have supported users in this forum these years more than the company itself. So big shoutout to you, you the GOAT!

Note: you can see how others have been complaining about the same in the forum, so if that many people is unhappy with the same situation, maybe it's not a user mindset issue, but a product one, isn't it? You can see how anxious is people in the forum trying to sign up to the beta program to see what's coming next.

nightjar

@Jiglo said: I think having the mindset of buying a product for what it can do now, rather than what you hope it could do someday is healthy when buying any product.

I disagree.

Depends entirely on the nature of the product.

If I buy a shirt.... sure.

BUT, many products are designed, marketed, & sold as part of a growing ecosystem.

It is 100% valid to buy a product with this ecosystem as a selling feature and expectations.

It is 100% valid to complain when a product fails to live up to reasonable expectations.

As for being "healthy" or not.. that is a separate thing.

A person can complain and push for change and remain quite "healthy".

I get the point about how someone might get mired down in frustration, but I find that compartmentalizing my energies based on my current focus is also effective.

Jiglo

Well, you're free to disagree and you're entitled to your thoughts, but I don't download the latest version of OS hoping that Apple and software companies will just make everything work as I want it all to work while having all the security benefits. Nor do I buy my macbooks and iphones thinking that Apple are going to open up to all the great features of Windows and Android. I buy them because they work how I want them to work and make my life easier.

I've bought a Kordbot that still doesn't have the sequencer that was promised at fundraising stage, but I bought it for what it could do when I bought it. That's why i've never been bitter about it like the countless Kordbot buyers that are still getting heated about this 7 or so years later.

Likewise, if I bought gear with the expectation of it's potential, I would be the most unhappy owner of countless grooveboxes that didn't live up the expectations I put on them.

But the question was should we cry? Everybody is free to cry if they want to and channel their emotions outwardly hoping for some love or reasoning to make sense of their mire, but i'm quite the opposite and I prefer my philosophy.

Wilmar Boer

It would be nice if NI would be so transparant that they would share a kind of roadmap about the plan's they have with the firmware and software.

Jiglo

I guess if you present a roadmap and then you have to deviate from that for whatever reason, maybe because of other fresh ideas, or to solve more pressing matters elsewhere, you make a rod for your back. I make long term goals for more travel etc, but quite often plans change. Maybe because of other people in my life having other great ideas, or just me seeing a new cool place that i'd never thought about before, or whatever it is that sparks other interests.

There's a lot of innovation and a lot of new companies bringing new products and ideas to the marketplace. That opens up even bigger wants lists and maybe even changes strategy. You can't chase everybody, but you could cherry pick ideas and go after the features you want.

Likewise, some features seem easy and straightforward, but then you hear stories about how the code is too messed up to implement said features, like with Brad from Isla Instruments responding to why he couldn't add the sequencer he promised. But then you get companies like 1010Music with a very small workforce who have been churning out regular meaningful updates by listening to their user base. So maybe it could be NI sitting on their hands.

Moonbot7000

It's really just NIs business model now of days. Assume what they release is what you get, they rarely provide updates anymore.

GoliatGar

If anyone gets M+ hijacked, we’ll have a nice Patcher like this one from @D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/11786/nipatcher-tool-to-modify-maschine-macos