How Do I Tag AR Drummer Libraries for Machine?

erniesfo
erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

I would like to be able to tag the elements (kick, snares, HHs, Toms, cymbals etc) of my AR Drum Libraries (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, Modern and Vintage) so that I can create Custom Kits that may combine elements from different eras (e.g. 60s and Vintage)


Do I need to load the libraries 1st to "User" and go from there? This is confusing for me.


Thanks!

Best Answers

  • Sunborn
    Sunborn Member Posts: 2,153 Expert
    Answer ✓

    If by "AR" you mean Abbey Road, they should be already tagged, as every other NI plugin or library.

    In case they are not, or you want to add extra tags, just click "edit" at the bottom of the left column, select the presets you want and start tag them.

    However, there is a problem here. As long the presets are in the Factory library, they can not be edited! So, move them temporarily to the User Content folder, do your tagging there, and then move them back to their default place

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited July 2023 Answer ✓

    AR Drummer is a Kontakt Instrument, you can't tag its content/samples...

    However, Maschine does come with some small Group/Kit versions of the AR Instruments, these are smaller kits than the instrument, usually with only one velocity layer. The real AR Instruments are in the Instrument Browser and the tiny Kits are in the Group Browser.

    To tag Kit/Group samples you need to copy them somewhere else first then add that folder as a User Lib. To find and copy them all quickly you need some basic filesystem search skills inside the 'Maschine 2 Library' folder, something like this:

    Then select all wavs, copy-paste them into a folder, and add it to your Preferences > User lib.

    Repeat for AR60, AR80, etc... Then edit the tag from the Maschine Browser. I don't really see the point since these are all already tagged, unless you ant some custom tags...

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member
    Answer ✓

    Believe me, small is beautiful...

    Right, tons of sounds in the instruments, but I will only be/want to be just using 16 of them on Pads using MIKRO 3. If I need to add something fancy later from a particular instrument I can live with that easy via the keyboard.

    FYI, Below is my Color Scheme and the Pad/Mapping Layout I will be using:

    So, for starters, how do I load, say Abbey Road 60s, and map/assign these drum parts to the pads? Thanks in advance...

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member
    Answer ✓

    Thanks! I'm on it. I think I'm going the last way - loading an instrument and then using in MIDI mode with MIKRO. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Answers

  • Sunborn
    Sunborn Member Posts: 2,153 Expert
    Answer ✓

    If by "AR" you mean Abbey Road, they should be already tagged, as every other NI plugin or library.

    In case they are not, or you want to add extra tags, just click "edit" at the bottom of the left column, select the presets you want and start tag them.

    However, there is a problem here. As long the presets are in the Factory library, they can not be edited! So, move them temporarily to the User Content folder, do your tagging there, and then move them back to their default place

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited July 2023 Answer ✓

    AR Drummer is a Kontakt Instrument, you can't tag its content/samples...

    However, Maschine does come with some small Group/Kit versions of the AR Instruments, these are smaller kits than the instrument, usually with only one velocity layer. The real AR Instruments are in the Instrument Browser and the tiny Kits are in the Group Browser.

    To tag Kit/Group samples you need to copy them somewhere else first then add that folder as a User Lib. To find and copy them all quickly you need some basic filesystem search skills inside the 'Maschine 2 Library' folder, something like this:

    Then select all wavs, copy-paste them into a folder, and add it to your Preferences > User lib.

    Repeat for AR60, AR80, etc... Then edit the tag from the Maschine Browser. I don't really see the point since these are all already tagged, unless you ant some custom tags...

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    First off, thanks for the responses D-One and Sunborn. I really, really appreciate it.

    To be clear, here's why I asked my question:

    1. I have only used NI instruments via Kontakt/Komplete Kontrol in Logic X on my Mac. So I'm a newbe re the MIKRO 3 and Maschine in general.
    2. I got the MIKRO 3 with the idea that I'd use it as a Finger drumming Controller for Drums only, using the pads, etc. I have already figured out and created a Pad Layout and Color Scheme that I want to use for the 16 pads when I can assign the drum elements to...
    3. What I want to do now is A) load only drum libraries: AR50/60/70/80/Modern/Vintage drummer/Butch Vig/Karriem Riggins, and the libraries for specific 3rd party Kontakt instruments - i.e., Moonkits, Electro Acoustic Drums; and B) And be able to mix and match elements from the various libraries to create...; C) Custom Kits of mixed elements that I will save (In "Groups", right?).

    So that's my/the goal.

    In an initial effort after trying the manual I got as far as the shot below - and I realized that I was missing something fundamental. I get D-One's point that I need to create a "User Library" to draw these elements from.

    Any help with guiding the process is appreciated. I'm pretty good technically but for some reason I'm having difficulty with the process in Maschine.


    Thanks!


  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited July 2023

    Well, then you want to use the instruments... Mix and matching all those options together will be quite complicated for a newbie. Note that Maschine designed with Kits/Groups in mind where one uses the Sampler, like classic drum-machine-like devices, while most of those complex Kontakt drum instruments are designed mostly for DAW's + keyboards (they have a lot more than 16 sounds)

    If you don't care about the realism of instruments like the AR series (which is it's main point, due to tons of velocity layers and sounds) you could also just create simple patterns, export, slice, edit, etc... and create your own Kit's with them. This is time-consuming but an easy approach.

    Or open all those instruments in a Group, one in each Pad, then in Keyboard Mode play and record whatever elements you want in each Pad, this is the easy way but quite awkward since you will always have to record one thing at a time and jump around in octaves.

    Alternatively, you can also add a second Group to stay in Pad Mode and have each Pad send MIDI to the Instruments are in the first Group and transpose the MIDI Output knob until each Pad triggers the Sound you want. This requires an understanding of internal MIDI Routing.

    If you later require sending the elements individually to the daw for mixing it gets even more complicated, i'd start small...

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member
    Answer ✓

    Believe me, small is beautiful...

    Right, tons of sounds in the instruments, but I will only be/want to be just using 16 of them on Pads using MIKRO 3. If I need to add something fancy later from a particular instrument I can live with that easy via the keyboard.

    FYI, Below is my Color Scheme and the Pad/Mapping Layout I will be using:

    So, for starters, how do I load, say Abbey Road 60s, and map/assign these drum parts to the pads? Thanks in advance...

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod

    @erniesfo asked:

    So, for starters, how do I load, say Abbey Road 60s, and map/assign these drum parts to the pads?

    Standalone Machine app or Machine-Plugin in a DAW?

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    Maschine Plugin inside of Logic X. Like I said earlier, I got the MIKRO in order to perform drums - via finger drumming, hence the specific layout - on pads using the color scheme and layout I showed earlier.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited July 2023

    Colors and layouts are the easiest part and you can change that and move things around later, forcing a functionality that was not intended is the difficult part, so focus on that.

    Make sure you load the 16-Out version of MAS-Plug as it will come in handy later. To start simple, say 3 AR Instruments each triggering a specific drum hit, I'd do it like this:

    1. Load AR50 In Pad-1, AR60 in Pad-2 and AR70 in Pad-3.
    2. For each Pad click the Pad Mode options and change the base "Key" of each one so that pressing the corresponding Pad triggers the drum hit you want. (For example: I set Pad1-AR50 to C3-Kick, Pad2-AR60 to F#1-HiHat and Pad3-AR70 to D3-Snare)


    Now each of the 3 Pads triggers a different drum hit from a different instrument, the disadvantage of this simple method is if you want several Pads to have a drum hit from the same instrument then you have to load it again for the other Pads, so this is not very computer resource optimized, if you're going for 16 piece kit you better have loads of ram since each of those kits ranges from 2 to 5GB.

    Since Logic does not support MIDI Out from AUv2 plugins (Maschine is not AUv3) you will have to record into Maschine Plug and then use the MIDI drag-and-drop button if you want your recorded MIDI to stay in Logic.

    If you're OK with your MIDI to stay in a single Logic Track (the one where MAS-Plug is loaded then right-click the Group and Select "Group MIDI Batch Setup">"Sounds to MIDI Notes", this will make sure MIDI drag-and-drop does not create tons of new extra MIDI Tracks.

    After you grasp all these concepts you can move on to make it 16 Instruments and use fancy colors and layouts, and perhaps look into ways to have a MIDI/Audio Logic track per Pad.

    There's other approaches like not using MAS-Plug at all and just using the Mikro in MIDI Mode and loading the Kontakt Instruments normally in Logic, this way you can record directly to Logic which is a major advantage (especially since you're not really using any Maschine-SW features from your description) but to make it a "KIT" you would need to use the MIDI "Key Limit" function in Logic to make sure each pad/key only triggers one instrument.

    Regardless of what approach you choose, it will always be a bit of a PITA to work like this if you constantly require changing up the drums from project to project... The instruments really arent designed to be used the way you're envisioning it, for that people usually use one-shot kits.

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member
    Answer ✓

    Thanks! I'm on it. I think I'm going the last way - loading an instrument and then using in MIDI mode with MIKRO. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for your help and suggestions.

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    D-One: Yes, I'm still alive and thanks again for the help. After going thru your response (and Sunborn's too) a whole bunch of NI/Machine related stuff fell into place for me mentally, conceptually. I figured out the Abbey Road Drums mapping issues. I will create a Group for each kit I create and use and simply recall it. As for the SonicCouture Moonkits and Electro-Acoustic drum-mappings it's more involved but at least I fugured that out too.

    I'll be recording via MIDI mode [i.e. shift-Maschine icon] right into Logic. Makes the most sense to me as I'm Logic oriented.

    I have another embarrassing question to ask: I was able to figure out how to color the pads to a certain layout for my MIKRO. Looks wonderful, makes it easier for me to Finger Drum etc. Since I really plan to use MIKRO primarily for drum input I'd like the Pad Color Layout to remain the same/constant for every Abbey Road Kit/Group I create. So I'd like the 16 Pad color scheme to be constant. I've looked at the Controller Editor and MIKRO's manual and I'm sure the answer to my question is staring me right in the face but I can't find the right preference parameter.

    Breadcrumbs appreciated!

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited July 2023

    Not sure what you're asking, how are your colors not constant?

    If I understood correctly you need lots of "Pad Pages" with different configurations depending on what Drum Plugin you want to control but you want the same colors. (You can change Pad Pages using the "Groups" button)

    Id say create a Pad Page under the "Pages" menu, delete all that come by default, select colors in the "Assign" menu then duplicate your 1st "Pad Page" multiple times so you don't have to re-do all the colors... Now configure each Page MIDI Out to match what you want to trigger... Might be a good idea to name them too.

    After all that is done you just use the Group button to change your Page.

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    Thanks for the response. Hopefully these pics make it clearer:

    Here's my MIKRO's Default - what it displays when I turn in on...

    Here's My MIKRO in MIDI Mode, showing color layout

    Controller Templates Tab

    Controller Pages Tab

    Controller Assign Tab, where I created the color layout that displays in only in MIDI Mode so far - with no created kits or groups.

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    The discussion section is not letting me post the last two paragraphs for some reason. I'll try a little later today...

  • erniesfo
    erniesfo Member Posts: 15 Member

    This is the rest of the text...

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