Is there a fix for Native Access 3.4 yet?
Answers
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Hasn't been like "it's always been" since 2017:
Offline Activation of Native Instruments Products – Native Instruments (native-instruments.com)
But the offline installers are out there (NA downloads them from somewhere) and all the keys are in our NI accts. If worse really came to worst - sounds like there could be a way to manually install if need be.
VP
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I have NA 1 i believe. I try to upgrade Traktor Pro 3.8 to TP3.9 but NA tells me TP3.8 is uptodate??????
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if you don't see this in your DAW then that's not something I can help with unfortunately. If you don't see it in Native Access then there's an issue there.
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LIF 3.2.3 is an example of a version that is locked to operate on older operating system that our company no longer offers support for (10.14). We plan to implement this system moving forward.
If users choose to make use of older operating systems, we can't support it, because if we were to encounter OS bugs, then we can't address it. The user base is so small on these that it also just costs too much to do so. We don't sell these products, so maintaining it would be at a loss. Every digital company I know of has this concern. Products can also be discontinued, and our support team can assist for getting unsupported products unlocked and activated for users who still choose to do so. Native Access' contribution to this is by locking certain versions for certain updates, like Rosetta 2, OS support, or other tech limitations we need to give support a break for, but these versions remain unsupported. This only works in the case for users who have not installed their products and are operating on older operating systems. Once activated they should be fine.
That is not to say there's not room for adjusting our support strategy in the future, but just something to keep in mind here. There are systems in place for users to activate their products regardless of support to an extent.
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This product does not appear on NA1 likely as the activation tech is newer. You'll need to go to Native Access to update it.
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That’s exactly what I was asking for. Just a way to install the products someone has bought.
Let’s make an example: an user has Maschine 1 with a Maschine MK1 and he wants to install it in his old laptop with an old Windows. In future (or maybe even now) NA won’t allow him to authenticate and install them, because it moved forward to offer new functionalities. The main thing is allowing someone who bought products and is not interested in updating or having the new functionalities to continue to use them as they are. Just as the EULA seems to assure
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Native Instruments still has an obligation under the terms of the agreement to provide the activation key "which ensures the continued use of the software independent of changes of the computer." It is therefore not contingent upon your assumptions. Furthermore, you can infer from the removal of said conditions from their current EULA that it is not somehow benign.
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Regardless of all the rambling about the EULA - Hayo_NI has now confirmed that there are systems in place to activate regardless of age "to an extent". This still does not guarantee it will work for you, your old OS or even your products which may or may not be discontinued (like say Absynth) at some point in the future.
I still do not understand how anyone could actually be a musician, producer or be a part of the digital audio community in any capacity and then try to justify how staying on a 10+ year old OS, with its matching aged hardware hoping they can activate (which will then be really old) software 7 years from now is their idea of a good "modern" workflow.
It is infinitely easier (and a whole lot more fun) to just stay current, stay productive and move forward.
VP
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You continue having a very narrowed view of things.
Maybe YOU want to be “modern” and up to date.
But I assure you that making good music is only partially tied to the assumption this is the only way.
Good music is made every day on devices like the Minimoog Model D (70 years old). Good musicians continuously search for very old guitars because “they have this or that sound”
But also you continue falling in the same assumptions.
Having a way to install the product you already have has nothing to do with discontinued products or support. Just you want to install and use the same product that has always worked. No new shiny things, no need for someone to work in order to let you install something you have on something that can make it work
A good workflow is the one that work for a musician and makes him take out his ideas and realize a good song. Not only the “modern” workflow. The music industry is plenty of artists that maybe just put a microphone in front of their instrument and record their melody, maybe even on an old multitrack recorder. Do you want to go to John Butler and tell him Ocean is not a good song cause it was recorded in one take with a microphone in front of his guitar not using a “modern” workflow? Or tell Eddie Vedder his concerts are not valid cause he just use his voice and guitar and not the most modern equipment?
And look at their guitars…OMG…they are all scratched and old…how can they be musicians?
I’m also almost sure that the musicians that used those old hardwares were having a whole lot of fun.
All of this plus another point: maybe someone also just can’t spend all his money in the newest shiny hardwares…but still want to make music with what he already got (and that is more than capable of managing it)… is this a possibility?
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LIF
Countering with a MOOG example or using my 1962 Telecaster on a track is not what I am talking about OR inferring. And almost all (if not all) of your examples from John Butler to Pearl Jam to whoever will eventually have to take their music to a DAW (with computers that are probably VERY current) to get their music to the masses. You cannot escape it even if using an old multitrack recorder.
For this discussion - let's keep it simple (and very clear) and focus on using a DAW and the NI tools - as designed - as a specific use case for "modern" music making.
I am asking why anyone - at this moment - who is in this specific DAW game - buying VSTis (NIs or anyone else's)- and using them on a computer - in the year 2023 - would be so overly concerned about something like "Having a way to install the product you already have" 5 or 7 years from now.
I am also not implying that someone "needs" to buy new hardware every year but I do find it bizarre (and VERY ironic) that this very same user - who seemingly has no issue spending hundreds (or perhaps thousands over the years) on NI (and many other) software products - would suddenly have such grave monetary issues that they would never (ever) consider purchasing a new computer every few years so they can actually be current (for a while)?
Or are you saying that we should all be one and done? Everyone who bought a computer with Windows 7 in 2015 - that's our machine for the rest of our "digital" music making life?
And because I am either so financially challenged OR I simply refuse to buy another computer because this one "still works" - every vendor our there (from NI to everyone else) had better start doing hard reviews of their EULAs and ensure their activation/licensing processes are ready and available just for me (for perpetuity) so I can continue to enjoy my "purchases" on my ancient relic of a computer regardless of what year it is?
Finally - you keep bringing this up:
"You want to install and use the same product that has always worked. No new shiny things, no need for someone to work in order to let you install something you have on something that can make it work"
You and others in this thread (and other threads) are making an assumption that if this (which Hayo referred to earlier) actually exists:
"There are systems in place for users to activate their products regardless of support to an extent"
That it is free of any "work" (NI involvement). That it magically conjured itself up out of thin air and is so bullet proof that it will work for every user, every time regardless of OS, system age etc.
You also seem to forget that whatever these "systems" are - probably took someone (probably lots of someone's) lots of time to build and test. That IS hard core support - whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
Support is a sunk cost (building these "systems" in the first place). Support is ongoing availability (the act of getting this so-called "key" to a user) and then somehow using these "systems" to manually activate a product successfully.
Support is most certainly the ever popular "problem state" where some user out there might need to actually use this mysterious "system" and it does not work. Then what? Leave the user hanging? Or will someone from NI Support need to swoop in and save the day?
Please do not be so cavalier about what it actually takes (or would take) to "support" such a mysterious system like this should anyone actually have a scenario that requires it.
VP
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Ok…you just don’t want to understand it. I don’t know your age or from how long you are using softwares.
But here is how it worked till not long ago: they gave you a disk with the software. They gave you the activation key printed on a paper. They told you “it work with this system”.
From there, they could even close the company the day after. With these 3 things/info you could just install your programs. And then uninstall them. And the reinstall them again. And so on and so forth. No need for them to ever ear you again
You don’t want to admit they are removing things and trying to keep you tied to them? Ok, do as you want.
You said “let’s keep it simple”. Ok. Simple: you are not interested in this? Good for you. But why messing with something somebody else want?
But since you will answer again and again with “support this, support that, costs, etc etc”, I close it here.
BTW: John Butler video has 61 millions of view. As you can see, one guitar, 2 microphones and a camera were enough to get his music to the masses
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LIF
Yes - I get it. Yes, I have been using computers and software since 1991. I know all of that. And yes - that is exactly how it "used" to work. But that is not how it works today. Not for any software company that I deal with - save this odd scenario with NI.
I fully admit that NI are removing things and yes they are keeping me tied to it. I want to be tied to it quite frankly as NI tools are a big part of my creative process.
I want NI to succeed. I want them to create more cool stuff for me to buy and if they need me to change my OS or install v4/v5/v6/v7 of Native Access to authorize - I really don't care. I am in this all the way and will do what is necessary to ensure I am current (and compliant) so the tools I have work correctly.
But I also recognize that ALL software has a very specific "useful" life span and the money I spent on it vs value realized will be reduced to zero at some point in the future. All software should be retired (and rendered "unsupported" by the vendor) when that useful span concludes (or a new upgrade takes it's place).
You keep quoting that EULA and fight the good fight. Peace out.
VP
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Though this discussion is currently way off point, I have to agree with Lost here. Software does not have to have a "useful" life in the way that hardware does and the buyer has a right to expect that they can continue to use non-subscription software.
We invest a lot of money in NI software over time. More than most hardware. We have a right to expect that we can get at and use the product without problems, providing we have the right hardware to run it on. So I can find some 10 year old computer with a heritage OS and continue to run my software. Countless people do this.
Obviously, there's a risk that working old computers get harder to find but the software should be available. If it's a floppy or CD, you're OK. With digital downloads and flawed installers, the problem is out of your hands. And given NI's performance with recent NA versions, the future is not positive.
It's my opinion that subscription software is a poisonous turkey. At some point in your life, you may not want to keep paying for new stuff and say "What I have got will do all that I want it to do." You've paid, so why not?
JC
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The point is that Native Instruments has an obligation to honor the EULA, and that doesn't cease to be the case just because you want to trivialize and sidestep that actual point and instead introduce logically fallacious arguments which are beside the point. Put simply your opinionated obfuscations don't negate the fact of the matter in any way, shape or form.
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Well - I just reviewed the EULA again - three times - and this clause you mentioned - does not exist:
"Should Native Instruments for whatever reasons no longer be able to fulfil its obligations to deliver the activation key, it will provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the software independent of changes of the computer."
End User License Agreement | Legal Information (native-instruments.com)
Seems there is no "point" to sidestep after all.
VP
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