Komplete Kontrol has conceptual "flaw"?

Olihop

The browser also lacks the ability to sort by key and bpm.

For me the browser seems quite well suited to the controller. With two small screens (compared to a computer screen) and eight knobs for sure we are a little limited in terms of ergonomics.

Also the sampler should also be completely revised with modern tools such as the CR8 from Waves. I hope NI will look into it.

nightjar

Looking at a competing product like the new CR8 and Cosmos from Waves shows a clear path for NI.

KK app needs to be very much like Cosmos..

KK app needs to be rethought NOT as a companion app to NI hardware controllers. Instead the hardware controllers are companions to the KK app. This is foundational thinking.

The KK app needs to be a smooth & powerful gateway to all the sounds in the NI universe. It may prove to be the most important app from NI.

And the machine learning tech from iZotope may prove to be a key ingredient to adding some of the auto-tagging power to the KK app.

Thankfully, the layout in the upcoming Native Access shows a direction that is similar to Cosmos in some ways. If NI is already rethinking the KK app with the layout of the upcoming Native Access, that is hopeful.

Olihop

I don't know what the next native access will look like but to hear you it sounds promising.

D-One

The OP disappointment seems more related to what is prioritized in development rather than a concept flaw IMO, keep in mind KK is almost 10yr, when something is old rethinking the direction is part of evolution.

It might have started with more dependency on the SW GUI but this was the norm back then, Hi-Res screens in keyboards were only a thing in expensive workstation-like keyboards. People asking for more hands-on control was sort of natural, so it happened, this is a big part of what made KK more special; just like Maschine people viewed it as something modern that was able to replace other standalone gear with all the pros/cons of being a tethered to a computer.

If in practical terms people do use the hw control or a mouse more is a whole other story, I would agree that it's better on paper than in reality and I also use the SW GUI more often, so does the majority of producers I follow but there's also many others with the opposite approach... Personally, I don't think it's fair to only blame the HW hi-res displays for the slow development of the SW altho there seems to be a philosophy of avoiding features that are too mouse dependent.

@nightjar said:

KK app needs to be rethought NOT as a companion app to NI hardware controllers. Instead the hardware controllers are companions to the KK app. This is foundational thinking.

I'm not sure that NI views KK-SW as the companion to the HW like you're assuming but one thing is for sure, KK wouldn't have as many customers if it wasn't for the shiny HW, this probably plays a major factor. I do however agree with the sentiment that the SW should be the main star.

Kubrak

@nightjar

Something glaringly obvious is to have the search filters arranged in adjacent columns rather than vertically stacked....

Well, I am SW developer. And to my opinion it is way better and more ergonomical being vertically stacked.

But I do not want to argue about it. I accept that you prefer it placed horizontally.

JesterMgee

Well, I am SW developer. And to my opinion it is way better and more ergonomical being vertically stacked.

Yeah I also have no issue with how it works, based on how Maschine already did it for a decade before, It's just a tag cloud browser which has been common place for decades.

GUI preference is personal opinion, not design flaw. Like what one believes is the "best" colour scheme is not what someone else believes.

I'm much more interested in discussions around actual missing features, things that currently do not exist for usage that really should.

Kubrak

I agree, VST3 or any other functional improvements are much more important than if something is placed vertically or horizontally.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7788#Comment_7788

Actually, what I really like most is the use of wide vertically stacked panes with small selection elements listed horizontally within ..... as illustrated in Waves Cosmos..

And to add more complex search filters, getting the layout improved is crucial. The current layout of KK app would utterly fail in usability to add more sophisticated conditional filtering.

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/1325/komplete-kontrol-has-conceptual-flaw

Sorry but your argument has a conceptual flaw - when KK software was first developed the hardware didn’t have a display at all - that was added only in the Mark II series. This page shows the Mark 1, as you can see no screen, instead parameter names were on a strip under each pot

https://djworx.com/kontrol-s-keyboards-komplement-komplete/

Here’s another

https://www.digitalpianoreviewguide.com/native-instruments-komplete-kontrol-s49-review/

Kubrak

@nightjar

Actually, what I really like most is the use of wide vertically stacked panes with small selection elements listed horizontally within ..... as illustrated in Waves Cosmos..

And other people like most something different, and yet other again something other.

Seriously, there are more important things in KK than layout of user interface. Yes. NI could make interface fully configurable. One could place elements according to taste. But first there is Apple Silicon port, VST3, and usability improvements. Interface is generally important, but priority is rather low in current situation.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7870#Comment_7870

Usability improvements is EXACTLY my point.

Interface design is fundamental to usability.

Kubrak

Apple Silicon, VST3, ..... is less important than interface?

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7893#Comment_7893

Equally important... NI needs to keep the development teams well supported and coordinated to accomplish several critical goals.

And there needs to be clear targets for these coordinate efforts so various elements can all aim towards the same point... otherwise these elements fail to support each other.

Everyone on the NI/iZotope team that has anything to do with KK and Kontakt needs to do a deep dive on the new Waves Cosmos and CR8 to keep a fire lit in their bellies.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7860#Comment_7860

Good point..

To fine-tune the "concept" of the this thread:

The KK app was conceived as a companion computer app to support the KK hardware keyboards.

This need to change.

The KK app itself needs to be thought of as the primary product.. and the hardware keyboards are supportive of it.

For too long, the tail has been wagging the dog.

Kymeia

I prefer to see it as a symbiotic relationship rather than one having to be subservient to the other