Cloudlabs v3 - Blocks/Racks enabled! Any Buchla interested people around?

Murat Kayi · 2022-02-18T15:45:32+00:00

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Hi Reaktrices and Reaktoreros,

I stumbled over that new version of cloudlabs which can be intermingled with Blocks, comes in a Rack format with presets and allows to piece together a buchla based system with individual blocks!

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/14367/

It is basically what I always hoped would happen sooner or later! Thanks so much to the creators!

I have just installed it and tried to combine it with other blocks (toybox nano). So, haven't really started, yet. But I wanted to explore the Westcoast synthesis approach a bit this year, what with all the options we have by now, be it the westcoast blocks in Prime or maybe configure something ourselves.

So, if you are interested, chime in with your westcoast-y experiences, would love to hear from you!

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bolabo

The buchla approach generates slightly more high end and more interesting harmonics than the cloudlabs folder. It also tops out to something that starts to look and sound a bit like a square wave..

I've been working on a new wavefolder block based on the buchla, I can send it to you guys by DM if you want to try it.

Much to my utter surprise there seems to be no cycling envelope with modulatable rise/fall times among the 600+ nano blocks!

Haha, yeah I think you're right.

You could loop the AD Envelope like this:

Or do it in a more convoluted way with 2 'Segment' blocks:

But yeah, as Colin said the CFG is pretty perfect.

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/1127/cloudlabs-v3-blocks-racks-enabled-any-buchla-interested-people-around

Maybe it's more sensible to think of east vs west as a philosophical approach to music rather than what kit you use?

e.g. find a nice 'East coast' filter with resonance, but instead of sticking a saw wave through it and playing acid basslines, set it to almost self oscillation, then ping it with random triggers while modulating the cutoff...

Same thing works the other way round... you can get kinda 'acid' baselines sticking a sine/tri/saw through a serge style function generator set to cycle at audio rates...

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/6472#Comment_6472

I guess what I mean is that the reason the hardware is different is because the aim was different.

One trying to create an instrument that would allow musicians to use their existing traditional skills and would fit into an existing musical context. The other attempting to create an experimental workshop to explore new potentially radical ideas...

IMO neither completely achieved their aims... the east coast it plenty weird enough to be experimental and radical, and the west coast is more limited than advocates would have us believe. Lots of crossover, and all amazing, but why limit yourself to one set of ideas?

Using an east coast filter and envelope to pick out parts of the spectrum of a west coast folded timbre can give really cool results...

As far as 'the kit' goes, I wouldn't call cloudlabs a buchla based system, more buchla 'inspired'. Apart from the obvious IP issues, the implementation - at least in places - isn't particulary accurate to the buchla sound. It's cool, but not the same...

The only bit I've looked into in depth is the wavefolder AKA timbre processor.

The buchla approach generates slightly more high end and more interesting harmonics than the cloudlabs folder. It also tops out to something that starts to look and sound a bit like a square wave... The cloudlabs one is closer to the sound you would get from a serge style folder, but not quite that either.

Sounds like I'm being pedantic, but in the case of west coast where so much of the character of the sound comes from the folder it is crucial. It's at least as important as the right filter is for east coast.

I would maybe supplement the folder with the DWG osc from primes and FOLD from the UL... although none of them are doing exactly what a Buchla folder does!

The other thing that I always think of when west coast is mentioned is a low pass gate. That's another thing that's difficult to get right because of those pesky vactrols. The one in the Factory Blocks Library is pretty good, but not quite as organic sounding as hardware. It's tricky because the hardware has a very complex response to simple inputs... changes a lot with frequency and amplitude... so you get nice 'ping' effects, but they change noticeably depending on input... to make things worse, different hardware versions can be quite different, and even different examples of exactly the same hardware unit can be significantly different.

The sequencing stuff does look pretty exciting though, and the UI graphics a pretty cool :)

A shame that it doesn't fit well with Blocks. The panels are much taller, so it gets very messy. I guess if you were disciplined and kept each to their own row... might work?

colB

> I am not too interested in the question of how realistic a virtual replica of any kind is. Also it is kind of a strange endeavour to evaluate the accuracy of a replica of inaccurate hardware components. IIRC, there was something of the sort going on with Monark.

And yet the thread is subtitled "any Buchla interested people around?" ;).

The difference between the cloudlab folder and a buchla folder (at least the ones I've studied) is more significant than the difference between the various minimoog clones out there.

I got sucked when I noticed the same discrepancy with my stuff. I thought I had folders pretty well sussed, then I found some good video and audio sources and was very surprised how different the sound is - more open and breathy with a more even spectrum. This lends itself to creating different kinds of sounds... Buchla is known for 'woody' tones from its LPG pings, but that won't work as well with a sine based folder, because the raw harmonics are not there to be sculpted.

>So, I want to learn the concepts and the thinking with the tools that kind of encapsulated them.

>Let's put it like this: every time I learned about a new approach to synthesis it was tightly connected to a special tool.

That's kind of my point though - these are not quite the tools that encapsulated those concepts, they are similar, but not the same, and some things that sound amazing on a buchla will sound so-so.. a bit dull... on something that is not a buchla... while other things that maybe don't even happen on a buchla might be great on these Reaktor tools...

I'm not saying that's wrong - to me it's great, but it is what it is, which is not what you were initially talking about... That's why I was suggesting looking at it more broadly from a philosophical POV. You can apply a west coast philosophy using all sorts of instruments.

>thanks for the keywords "vactrols" and "Serge", I have several browser tabs open with stuff I did not know about yesterday, lol:)

hehe, the Buchla vactrol LPG and folder combined with serge Style function generator... mmm... I wish I had access to these synths, but they are so expensive it's unreal. We can't really understand what they are until spending time with them.

Fortunately, there's plenty of Eurorack stuff 'inspired' by west coast tech, so we can get a flavour. And we can try to bring that to Reaktor... but it's not easy.

I have a Doepfer wavefolder in my Eurorack. I bought it because is was available, and a wavefolder is a wavefolder right?... wrong :). The Doepfer is based on the serge approach, and the sound I wanted (didn't know at the time) was the Buchla version. So I was disappointed. Since then I've discovered various amazing sounds with the Doepfer, but they are not what I was expecting, and not the 'west coast' I had in my mind. Still haven't got a Buchla style wavefolder... yet... too busy getting sucked into other sub niches of euro

Murat Kayi

Whatever the philosophical implications might be, for now I am starting out with the Cloudlab thing. I'd love to have a kind of synth museum around where you can test drive these things.

Apart from however the learning path winds into that forest of virtual voltage, I have to say I just spent two hours plugging cables and turning knobs and it's fun! Just don't know what to do with that first LPG knob which listens on CC0, yet. I left that out.

EDIT: sry, quite forgot: bottom line is, It's not the real thing, I know. And different machines sound different, even in the virtual world. But I am still interested in that whole approach - you have to start somewhere, you know. Maybe we can start an exploration thread with examples by whatever means necessary.

colB

Here's a krell patch... not sure if that's west coast, but I think the original concept was on a Buchla synth...

highway to krell 2.zip

Murat Kayi

This is awesome! Truly wondrous, it made me smile a lot!

Also, a few moments ago I had no idea what Krell means and now I have a new film on my watchlist, hahaha

It looks like a lean and elegant approach - I need to try this, too

Murat Kayi

I watched ten of the krellberg videos, they are marvelous!

I am not done exploring your single krell patch. Did you know that wonderful things happen if you crank the carrier FM knob up? It's like a trio of whale song, Hendrix and R2-D2 doing call and response

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7057#Comment_7057

I don't have nano blocks so not sure about that. Any envelope block with a cycle mode and standard modulatable controls over the attack and decay would be applicable, but the West Coast CFG is ideal. No need to re-invent the wheel ;)

I suppose there is always the possibility to generate DC offsets when there is a lot of self modulation going on. Maybe low frequency sidebands pulling the signal +ve or -ve.. or something like that, it does seem to move around, so not 100% DC, just very low frequencies. Just stick a Bento Box SVF set to high pass mode with cutoff at ~15Hz between the DWG and the LPG, and that will remove any significant DC offset.

btw, good call on the whale sounds :). Personally, I like the woodwind effects... like bassoon, oboe, clarinet all morphing between each other and a bunch of alternative undefinable sounds. I think in part that's a consequence of modulating the fold amount at audio frequencies

bolabo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7280#Comment_7280

Yes I noticed that too. I’ll fix the block and DM it over for you to try.

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/6756#Comment_6756

Mylar melodies makes some good videos. I'm always wary of Eurorack vids though, because they do tend to focus on specific products rather than general approaches. He usually strikes a balance though... usually ;)

bolabo

Oh brilliant! :)

Murat Kayi

Yes! I hoped this would attract your attention sooner or later, hahaha. Need to check up on all the info in here, later, but for now: The two segment set up is what I put together late last night and that for me is the most attractive thing about the nano blocks. If you can't find it, you can probably build it!

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/7129#Comment_7129

If you can't find it, you can probably build it!

That's true about modular in general. True for Reaktor primary, and core - both modular. Also true for the Factory Library Blocks Base and Primes.

e.g. earlier I posted a rack that uses a shift register... but wait, there is no shift register in the Library... 1 x CFG and three times sample and hold... shift register ready for action!

modular==win!

Obviously the more tools the better - good to not have to use 5 modules when there is one that can do the job... but sometimes the modularised version offers more flexibility... so it's a trade off

e.g. shift register again... an off the shelf shift register just gives inputs for gate and cv, and shifted CV ouputs. But if you build one, you can play about with the individual trigger times for the different stages, and get interesting effects as the changes in CV at the different outputs are staggered instead of simultaneous... and then you can modulate or sequence that... so more options open up!

I made a little minimalist generative ditty using this approach a while back on my eurorack. At about 58 seconds in, it changes from kinda arpeggiation to chord stabs, but still with a slight delay giving a kind of strummy, or ensemble effect. That was me changing the trigger delay on a patched shift register. Hmm, I forgot this uses another funky modular trick - all notes generated by sending clock divisions to a mixer, then through a quantiser. Works OK - I generally prefer this kind of thing to random notes, seems like there is more structure... although that might just be cognitive bias?

https://soundcloud.com/colray/a-rational-dilemma?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Murat Kayi

@bolabo when i use two segments to makes to make them cycle, i get an unexpected stop when i change the curve positively on the first one. I guess it's because the designated target level is reached, but it happens very fast and then the cycle stops completely. What is going on there?

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