MK3 Keyboard "Grabbing" Instances from Vienna Ensemble Pro

FilmCompos3r
FilmCompos3r Member Posts: 48 Helper
in Komplete Kontrol

I realize I'm probably in the .1% of Komplete Kontrol MK3 keyboard users who also use Vienna Ensemble Pro, but ever since Kontakt 8 introduced direct integration the keyboard has sometimes been connecting to instances of Kontakt 8 running in VEP and favoring them over those in my DAW. I run VEP on the same machine, so I guess that's where the issue lies, but I have all midi inputs disabled in VEP. Somehow the keyboard still sees Kontakt.

It doesn't always happen, and I think it depends on what order I start things up, but I would love to know if there is a way I can consistently block this from happening. Downgrading VEP to Kontakt 7 is potentially a route, but I'd love to stick with 8 if I can.

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Best Answer

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,799 mod
    Answer ✓

    The Kontrol S MK3 uses a custom protocol to communicate directly with Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol.

    That's what NI Hardware Connection Service is used for, among other things.

    As such, disabling MIDI input in VEP wouldn't block this information.

    I suspect the issue is a conflict between two hosts (Cubase and VEP) barking at Kontrol S MK3 for attention, whereupon it can only focus on one host, and thus strange behaviors arise.

    Usually this wouldn't matter, as VEP is typically run on a second machine, into which Kontrol S MK3 would not be connected. This is probably why it's not come up before.

    However, for users such as yourself, I'm not sure there's a current workaround. NI HCS will be in conflict between two simultaneous hosts. I will flag this with the team (I now work on Kontakt, no longer on Kontrol) and see what if any suggestions they have.

    However, it may become a feature request (e.g. allow host to be blocked, allow host focus selection).

    Let's see what they say.

Answers

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 6,685 mod
    edited May 6

    Kontakt 8 running in VEP and favoring them over those in my DAW.

    Could you please make a screenshot of the exact setup ? And explain exactly what you are doing ? Like if you are you running two or more different instances of VEP at the same time and then exactly how ?

  • FilmCompos3r
    FilmCompos3r Member Posts: 48 Helper
    edited May 6

    I'm running one instance of VEP (Vienna Ensemble Pro) on the same computer as my DAW.

    VEP is an instrument host that runs, as a separate program, alongside my DAW Cubase, and Cubase uses midi tracks to play instruments hosted there. This allows us film composers to have large templates persistent in memory between sessions. It is common practice in the film msuic community.

    Sometimes VEP would be run on a second computer, but because computers are so powerful now its it's equally common to run it on the same machine (as I am doing).

    There's nothing really to screen shot here; again, the Komplete Kontrol Keyboard is detecting an instance of Kontakt running in VEP (not desired) and linking up to that rather than to Kontakt in Cubase (desired). Changing tracks in Cubase, funnily enough, will have the keyboard cycle through the tracks in VEP.

    Happy to explain more as I can understand why its confusing.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 6,685 mod
    edited May 6
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/225025#Comment_225025

    Happy to explain more as I can understand why its confusing.

    Thank you , no , no further explanation is needed for me.

    I just needed enough clarification to ask @Matthew_NI could you please take a look here to see if you think that this needs your insight and expertise or if it is a case for N.I. Kontakt Support ?

    @FilmCompos3r , I hope that Matthew_NI (who is not in support but is the top expert here) will find time to be able to give a comment at least , else you most likely will need N.I. Kontakt Support or N.I. Komplete Kontrol Support

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,799 mod
    Answer ✓

    The Kontrol S MK3 uses a custom protocol to communicate directly with Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol.

    That's what NI Hardware Connection Service is used for, among other things.

    As such, disabling MIDI input in VEP wouldn't block this information.

    I suspect the issue is a conflict between two hosts (Cubase and VEP) barking at Kontrol S MK3 for attention, whereupon it can only focus on one host, and thus strange behaviors arise.

    Usually this wouldn't matter, as VEP is typically run on a second machine, into which Kontrol S MK3 would not be connected. This is probably why it's not come up before.

    However, for users such as yourself, I'm not sure there's a current workaround. NI HCS will be in conflict between two simultaneous hosts. I will flag this with the team (I now work on Kontakt, no longer on Kontrol) and see what if any suggestions they have.

    However, it may become a feature request (e.g. allow host to be blocked, allow host focus selection).

    Let's see what they say.

  • FilmCompos3r
    FilmCompos3r Member Posts: 48 Helper
    edited May 6

    Thanks Matthew. These days, many composers run VEP on the same machines, so this would certainly benefit a cross section of users.

    BTW, not sure if I was clear in my original post but the issue is coming up with Kontakt 8, not Komplete Kontrol.

    If it does go in as a feature request I appreciate it.

    I CAN get it to communicate exclusively with Cubase much of the time, particularly if I restart Cubase, so launch order plays a role, but I haven't played with it enough to determine the exact order to ensure it barks to Cubase.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 6,685 mod
    edited May 6
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/225053#Comment_225053

    BTW, not sure if I was clear in my original post but the issue is coming up with Kontakt 8, not Komplete Kontrol.

    No you were clear I think. Reason for me calling on Matthew_NI rather than on the keyboard team was that Matthew_NI now is on the Kontakt team but also used to be on the keyboard team so Matthew_NI really is one of the absolute top experts here (what is also a reason that he ought never be called upon unless absolutely necessary)(he is not part of the support team) . Kontakt 7 and newer also supports the 'Direct Connection' that previously were only supported by the Komplete Kontrol app. The Komplete Kontrol that Matthew_NI refers to here most likely is the Komplete Kontrol MK3 keyboard.

    Thank you at Matthew_NI for taking time to answer this.

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