TP4 Grid are a mess
Comments
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Thanks for the mapping suggestions. Im very familiar with mapping one button to have 3 or 4 functions. You wouldn't even believe my TSI lol. Im not questioning TP4's advancements. I welcome them.
Thanks for pointing out the analyze options in preferences (Analyze Options / Automatic Markers dropdown window), and in the actual Analyze window pane that shows "Special or All" options, when analyzing a track. Its helpful.
Im still confused about your statement below.
Your Statement - The hot cues are now separate from the grid markers, so the white/grey cue is no longer a grid marker. You have to move the cue separately from the underlying grid marker, which you can do in the cue panel.
Me Question - How is the White/Grey Cue not Grid Marker? If I manually press the Set Grid Marker button or let TP4 do it automatically using Analyze (async), Its GREY…and its a GRID marker. No? I dont understand.
Ive read your statement so many times it sounds like a riddle lol. No disrespect.
It doesn't help we have 8 different ways to describe Grid either.
Can I DM support with you?
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No, it USED to be a grid marker and hot cue in one. Traktor Pro 4 sets a separate grid marker and hot cue in the same place, and they are independent of each other. Deleting the grey hot cue does not delete the beatgrid, so the grey hot cue color is meaningless now.
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So…yes if I choose Preferences / Analyze Options / and choose "Grid Marker and Hot Cue" in the drop down box, and analyze my track, I get (in your words) 1 meaningless Grey/White Grid Marker and 1 Cue. I understand there are two, and they are separate. I get it.
But. If I choose Preferences / Analyze Options / and choose "Only Grid Marker" in the drop down box, and analyze my track, I don't even get a white or grey grid marker or cue. I get what looks like just a grid.
So, using the latter example above, I could have the Grid set, plus Enable Analysis Lock without taking up any cue points visually in Cue (Slots) 1 thru 8? Only asking bc if I can…LFG! lol
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Depending on wether or not you are in advanced→hotcue layout or in advanced→grid layout, either the grid markers or the hotcues (including the grey grid-looking hotcue) are invisible. This way you can easily check, if a marker is one or the other.
Hotcues can only be set, deleted, re-numberd or type-changed.
Gridmarkers can be set, deleted, moved (nudged) or their bpm can be changed.
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Yes, exactly :) I have been doing that for many years in previous Traktor versions by unchecking "Store Beatmarker as Hotcue" and then dropping a Load hot cue at the beginning of the track.
But I think plenty of people don't know about this setting, and it was enabled by default, so when you migrate your collection to TP4 the "Automatic Markers" setting will mirror the previous "Store Beatmarker as Hotcue" setting.
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LFG!
Thank you Im glad you pointed this out. Its an important distinction!
I see so…
The look of "Analyze Options" in TP3 (in Preferences) is slightly different then in TP4.
In TP3 unchecking the "Store Beatmarker as Hotcue" in the analyze options drop down box produces only a Grid and NOT a Grid marker leaving you with 8 open cue slots (1 thru 8) (LFG! lol). And in TP4, to have the same experience, you have to manually choose "Only Grid Marker" in Analyze Options in Preferences (LFG!). These are not default settings!
I was unaware that "Store Beatmarker as Hotcue" (in analyze Options in Preferences) was a default setting in prior versions of Traktor and that it transfers over to TP4 when upgrading. Its an important distinction! I understand why it might be overlooked if your the set and forget type and just roiled with how TP3 implemented things over a decade.
Here I could have been doing this (your way) for years 😡 Its such a better way!
Im sure there will be others just like me lol. I hope they can benefit from reading this.
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I used to create Load Cues for a while, then got lazy and just used the Grid Markers (with a "Jump to next Cue" mapping that I'd hit on load). Now I'm back to Load Cues, but I'll have to add them to an inordinate amount of tracks. The way I have been doing it just doesn't work any longer…
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I think we need to differentiate the choices we have available during setting the grid, and multiple grid points. It may help.
Start off by using the GUI only.
I would recommend leaving "Grid Marker and Hotcue" as the default here.
Reason being is that a fix for what I would call a serious issue should be in queue by now. It depends on the community response, so the more details the better.
If using a controller to define how you store, access, and shift the grid via your controller on cue 1 or if using the GUI, mention which controller you use or if you are setting this via GUI and mouse. Not everyone is using a Traktor Kontrol. Not everyone is independently shifting the grid away from cue point 1 either, and not everyone has a controller to do this independently.
I'm not a fan of having to re-evaluate my old white/grey GRID markers either, but you will soon see that trying to restore a white/grey grid marker is actually not really required. And if you do manage to do this via the hot cue 1, yes you can map that to 8 later. But it's not required. You just don't have that visual representation as a color (white/grey) on a hot queue as standard AUTOGRID or GRID, The grid is now independent.An earlier post did mentioned how to complete the grid adjustments via the GUI. What I wouldn't worry about here is having the marker white/grey, it's not going to matter in the long run, because it was always a wasted cue.
Maybe we can all add further detail working with what we have currently…2 -
Personally in TP4 I use "Only Grid Marker" in preferences analyze options (pictured above).
In TP4 once I realized the difference btw Grid MARKER (no visual White/Grey Hot Cue) and a Grid HOT CUE (with visual White/Grey HOT CUE), I personally found no need to even have a white/grey grid marker since the Grid Marker (not HOT CUE) already has it covered in TP4. TP4 makes an additional Grid MARKER where the old TP3 Grid HOT CUE used to be. SO essentially you have two.
I used to use TP3 with two Hot Cues. 1 Grid Hot Cue and 1 Load Hot Cue. In TP4 I only see the need for Load Hot Cue.
I mapped a keyboard shortcut with 2 buttons that work for both older tracks coming from TP3 and new tracks post analysed (Async) in TP4. The same keys shortcut keys work for both.
The end result is only one visual Load Hot Cue in slots 1 thru 8, BPM Lock and nothing else. Since TP4 makes an additional Grid for tracks coming from TP3 where the Grid Hot Cue was/is, I can delete the Grid Hot Cue without fear.
Admittedly I'm not the type to utilize flexible beat grids all that much.
I think the biggest hurdle is wrapping our heads around so many "Grid" terminologies. I know that was my problem.
Its genius how they did it tho.
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I'd like to thank everyone in this thread for the passionate conversation and appreciate that the initial questions are resolved step-by-step.
We decided to separate grid markers and cue points into two different pools because of much higher amount of markers to be expected in the context of a Flexible Beat Grid feature.
We needed to find a solution to nicely transition the Pro 3 behaviour (using special cue points to define the downbeats) into the new approach of Pro 4.
Our solution was to give the option to still have a cue point set on the first grid marker, but we did not expect that the associated grid cue point was used in so many different ways.I realise that we may have underestimated the need of a deeper explanation of the change in the beat grid system and the underlying motivation for that change.
The improvements we are currently looking into for mitigating the biggest pain points are the following:
- introducing an option to reset the downbeat on each grid marker (as it used to be in Pro 3)
- improving the visibility and accessibility of grid markers so that the visual guidance they gave in Pro 3 is restored
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Holy ******, NI the changes to how Beat Grids work is HORRIBLE. I don't really give a ****** about flexible beat grids as I play mostly house music and other music that's to a grid. If there's a track that won't line up, I just turn off sync and mix by ear. The changes in T4 are absolutely terrible and there should be a way to use "Legacy" functionality for those of us who've spent years beat marking and mixing this way. BIG FAIL!
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You are not really communication what the exact issue is you are having.
Do you want to set multiple different downbeat markers? Otherwise there should be no difference.
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One thing I would really appreciate is if the minute markers in the strip were replaced by markers based on the grid (with, say, a fine line every 16 bars and a heavier one every 64 bars)
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Every 8 bars would be good. Usually I mouse over the waveform ahead of the play head to estimate how much 8 bars is so I can figure out the rest of the track structure.
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