S88 mk3 Noisy key, worth investigation?

Ojustaboo

@Jeremy_NI @Matthew_NI @Chris_NI

Hi all, Bought my S88 mk3 last January so it's about 3 weeks out of warranty (typical lol)

Today the G below middle C started to make a noticeable noise.

I live in a mid terrace house so when I'm not using headphones (don't like using them all the time), I'm not playing very loud hence this noise is quite noticeable.

It seems to be when pulling the key to the right.

If say I play a scale or arpeggio it sounds perfectly fine, but if say I'm playing a chord with the G as the root, it's very noticeable.

I've included a couple of very short vids.

1st shows the noise it makes when pushing it to the right, 2nd when playing chords, and when I play the F & A chord you can hear how quiet it is compared to G chords.

Please excuse the sound quality and the playing quality (hard to play while filming in other hand, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it).

It is a lot louder on the vid than in real life, but still annoying

Do you think it's worth getting it fixed or would you not bother if it was you?

The key plays perfectly at all velocity levels.

Even if NI agreed to replace it (only just out of warranty) it's a lot of hassle and mine is in perfect cosmetic condition, not a mark on it, and I'd hate to get a refurb that wasn't

Anyone experienced similar on other keyboards and know a fix?

You guys at NI think it's worth getting fixed (and if so can you pull any strings for being just out of warranty, bought Jan 2024)

Thanks

https://youtube.com/shorts/lYzR-3Kgzog?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/KWfP6deN5uo?feature=share

Jeremy_NI

@Ojustaboo Please get in touch with our hardware service, see what can be done :  https://bit.ly/NI_support_Hardware

JesterMgee

For the cost of these things i'd be pretty peeved myself and i'd be directly raising a ticket first. In the past you were likely to get some assistance and a decent resolution, from my own experience. However the playing field has changed and it's not the same small company it was 15 years ago so not sure you would get a decent resolution.

I have seen reports of this kind of issue even from way back with the MK2 keybeds where felt, spacers and dampeners seemed to deteriorate fast or be poorly installed and result in keys clicking and clunking

You could attempt a repair, however these are not all that simple to dismantle and I have not seen any videos for the MK3. I would think the keybed would be pretty similar, it is supposedly upgraded but not sure the jury is convinced for the better yet. Here is a video of the MK2 being fixed (maybe just mute the music):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcOH6BN-FvE

Also there have been videos of this same issue posted for years for the MK2 showcasing this is still a known problem after some time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4r2GWMwH1w&t=96s

mykejb

Did you buy from NI or a third party like Thomann or DV247? Some companies offer 2/3 year warranties in addition to the one year NI warranty. Also, you can often return items that are expected to last longer than the official warranty period if the product is "expensive or sold as high quality, premium or top of the range" which pretty much describes the S88 MK3. Take a look starting here -  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/return-faulty-goods/

Ojustaboo

Annoyingly the shop I usually purchase products from was out of stock and they advised me that I'd be better off getting it else where if I wanted it soon as they didn't have a date for new stock.

And the company I bought it from (Bopdj), I actually bought by mistake , and sadly they only offered a one year warranty.

Here is an email I sent them after it was ordered:

Hi, placed an order with yourselves, order number 

Your order # xxxxxxxxxxx (placed on 10 Jan 2024, 13:05:33)

bearing in mind I’m a very careful 59 year old who double checks everything, I just spent £1069 with you thinking you were someone else.

I usually use Music Matter but I want a NI s88 MK3 urgently (as I’m impatient) and they are out of stock and not expecting stock until end of Jan, beginning of Feb.

Reason I like Music Matter is that they offer a 3 year warranty on things like this.

Anyway, I googled and found two stores that had it in stock at the same price for delivery tomorrow.
Yourselves and Discdjstore.

I meant to order it from DiscDJStore,  only because they offer 2 year warranty whereas you offer the standard manufacturer warranty.

I got confused in the excitement of placing my order, you both have dj in your names :)

Anyway, I’ve looked at your trustpilot reviews, it looks like the vast majority are very very positive, so providing it is in stock and will be here tomorrow, I’m happy to keep my order with you.

I imagine you’re all laughing at me saying how some idiot spent over a grand at the wrong store company, ah well, that will teach me to be impatient lol.

Best

I'm sure I could argue my case and eventually end up with a replacement or repair, my concern is I use it everyday and I don't want to have to be without it for weeks. I understand my contract is with the store I purchased it from, but for example, if my Playstation broke, going direct to Sony and I get a replacement in days, hence me asking here if the guys at NI could do anything.

I've just sent an email to Bopdj asking what they can do, I'll wait for their reply and see where to go from there.

Jeremy_NI

@Ojustaboo Please get in touch with our hardware service, see what can be done :  https://bit.ly/NI_support_Hardware

Ojustaboo

Thanks, have just done so.

BopDJ site says for out of 1 year warranty they charge (all plus 20% VAT)

£60 inspection fee whether or not the repair goes ahead, and a £60 estimate fee deducted from repair if I go ahead, £50 an hour labour, £20 delivery, £10 repacking fee, so that's a minimum of £200.

They also say "Spare part availability is not under Bop DJ’s control, and repairs may be delayed, if necessary parts are unavailable. This is a common situation within the industry."

So going that route will cost a lot, plus they might have it for weeks waiting for parts. I appreciate I can (and have done in the past) argue all the way to the Ombudsman.

Long story short, major surgery end of 2023, very nearly died, now on Fentanyl and Morphine for life, plus take another 32 tablets a day (not a typo) now have to use a wheelchair if going over about 25 yards due to pain (not legs) and am permanently exhausted. The one thing that I can't handle is any form of stress, I can no longer even watch the news, I simply can't take it.

So I need an easy no stress solution or I'll simply stick with it or try to repair myself (I can usually mend/fix anything)

Matthew_NI

Please reach out to NI directly

Ojustaboo

Bopdj didn’t want to know, said

"Really sorry to hear about the issue with your keyboard.

 Unfortunately, we are not an authorised repair centre for Native Instruments, so there’s not much we can do in terms of out of warranty repairs.

 I would recommend that you get in touch with Native in regards to this, letting them know everything you have told us. It’s possible, though I think unlikely, that they may be able to offer a free out of warranty repair. More likely though, they will give you a quote for a repair.

 Apologies we can’t be of more help here. As we don’t repair any Native Products, we can only assist you in liaising with Native regarding in-warranty requests.”

OK, that’s as per described on their website, so technically they have honoured what their site says (although it’s not as simple as that, as mykejb said earlier). a word of warning though, there’s shops that offer 2 and 3 year warranties who charge exactly the same price as the rest. I will make sure in the future that I only use those store with the extended warranty even if the products a few £ more.

Thankfully NI have been much more understanding and while I often read how others are often frustrated by NI support, yet again, so far in this case, I simply can’t fault them.

Ojustaboo

10 out of 10 for NI, 5 out of 10 for UPS lol.

I have to say this, over the past couple of years I have seen complaint after complaint about the lack of support from NI.

Thursday at 11:37 I contacted their Hardware support. Over Thursday I had a further three communication emails from Native Instruments. At 16:47 just 5hrs 10 mins later, I had UPS labels and instructions to return it emailed to me.

I phoned UPS straight away and they arranged to pick it up Friday (yesterday), their time window 9 - 16:00 (surely they can do better than that).

Yesterday at 14:14 just 26hrs 37mins after I first contacted Native Instruments support, my keyboard was picked up on its way back to Germany.

I simply can’t fault that, In all honesty I can’t see how any company could possibly offer a better service, as I’ve said before, I’ve contacted NI via online a few times over the years, download problems, pricing problems, license transfer problems, and each time it’s been sorted out very very quickly.

I understand that just because I’ve always had good service does mean everyone does, it must be very frustrating if you don’t, but I do wonder that while I’m sure some of those who haven’t received the support they want have been very polite, I do wonder if part of the reason I’ve always had great prompt and helpful responses is because I’m very polite in my requests?

Credit where credit is due, NI has come through for me yet again and I’m very happy.

While I do like the option to speak to a person, if I actually think about it, more often than not, I spend AGES waiting in a queue. with various companies, only to finally get through to someone who hasn’t got a clue what I’m talking about, leading me to either phone back or email them, in a lot of ways using email support can (as in this case) work very well. But there are times when a human that knows what they are talking about is worth its weight in gold, but if such an option exists, they will spend 99% of their time answering things that are suited to online support and it would take forever to get through to them. A possible solution could be for the companies to phone those customers (with their number withheld otherwise it would be posted on the web in no time) in cases where human to human support is needed?

As for UPS lol, normally I have no problems with them. This time, NI made it very clear that due to Brexit, as the UK is no longer in the EU, I must attach 3 signed and dated copies of their Proforma Invoices. Native Instruments were very clear I needed to put all 3 in an envelope on the outside of the box, not inside.

Luckily the box still had one of those clear envelopes on it. I put in three signed and dated copies as asked, and I also put in another copy of the UPS label.

I just checked the tracking, what do I see.

A missing commercial invoice is causing a delay. We are working to obtain this information.

I suspect in my eagerness to make sure nothing goes wrong, I caused the problem and they didn’t bother checking behind the extra UPS label I put in the envelope. Glad I checked the tracking. Just got off the phone with them, lady was as helpful (and apologetic) as she could be, has sent the UPS centre/depot my response, email and phone number so if they can’t find them I can send them another 3.

She said the depot won’t deal with any emails until the next business day so Monday. I don’t know how they work, I was hoping it might get on a plane over the weekend, ah well, hopefully NI will get it early next week and I won’t have to wait long.

Thankfully have another 2 keyboards (and Maschine) but neither full length or fully weighted. This year I’ve been practicing piano playing every day (I’m no good) so am missing it, but it will give my fingers a rest.

TL:DR

10 out of 10 for NI. Very happy, my S88 is in transit on the way back to them.

Jeremy_NI

@Ojustaboo Thank you so much for these kind words, I have forwarded them to our Hardware Support team. It's really nice to read this on a Monday morning. I hope your keyboard finds it's way back to you really soon!

rdalcroft

A regrease of the Key will fix the issue. It happens when the Grease wears off, as the white keys on this keybed (Same as the MK2) has no grease trap, its just open space, so the grease can just get pushed to the edges from the post.

Yes the lateral movement is a good test. that's the post hitting the inner side of the white key. This is what the grease is for to cushion it and stop this from happening.

Sadly this design, the grease only lasts for about a year, before needing a re-grease. I do my MK2 every year now. I have become an expert at re-greasing all 88 keys. lol

The black keys are different, as they have a nice square hole, where the post slides into, this you can pack full of grease, and it last so much longer, creating the cushioning effect, and stopping the Plastic on plastic noise you are hearing.

Its a 3 hour job to re-grease all of the 88 keys. But 20 min jon to do just one key. The video above shows you how to open it, its an easy job if you are careful. But because of warranty you may just want to send it in for repair, but be warned, you will not get your unit back, they will send you out a refurbished unit.

See my post here:

S88 Mk2 - Noisy Keys - Fixed - Instructions — Community

Ojustaboo

Thanks @rdalcroft thats great info should it happen in the future.

Native Instruments went the extra mile with their support and replaced my S88 MK3

rdalcroft

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/214480#Comment_214480

Yes, they are pretty good, if it's in warranty, thats the way to go. My advice is mainly for those no longer in their warranty period.

Glad they fixed it for you.