Analyzing tracks with "No Markers" vs selecting "Only Grid Marker" downbeat outcome question

John6

I noticed when Async-ing / Analyzing tracks with "No Markers" selected (in Preferences / Automatic Options) vs selecting "Only Grid Marker" gives VERY different Grid results.

I assume using "No Markers" avoids using Traktors algo to find downbeat and instead relies on BMP? 

Maybe someone can confirm this?

Thanks

John6

Anyone at all? Thanks

Sûlherokhh

Make screenshots of the VERY different Grid results and post them here.

John6

Async / Analyze using No Marker chosen from Drop Down Box (Preferences / Analyze Options)

No Marker 2.jpg

Async / Analyze using Only Grid Marker chosen from Drop Down Box (Preferences / Analyze Options)

Only Grid Marker 2.jpg

Only Grid Marker produced the correct downbeat result

No Marker Produced a different result (def not the correct Downbeat)

Sûlherokhh

The 'Downbeat' is a gridmarker, so without one you will only see the transients.

You have to manually set your own downbeat (gridmarker) if you forbid Traktor to place one after analysis. After you have set the first downbeat, the rest should follow exactly like the second pic. Unless you place several gridmarkers to make it a 'flexible' beatgrid.

John6

Yes Thanks.

I totally understand how using Analyze with Only Grid Marker checked in preferences works and everything about it. I got that solid.

I asking about (what you call) Transient lines (faint white lines) that Traktor creates using No Marker chosen in preferences after analyzing a track. There is a big difference between the results of using No Markers and Only Grid Markers chosen in preferences analyze options.

Only asking bc I used No Marker while analysing 500 tracks. I set my own Grid Markers based on (what your calling) transients. The results were all over the place.

Im trying to help people who might go down the same road with these options.

I cant seem to find the explanation in TP4 manual

Here's what google says

In Traktor Pro 4, "transients" refer to the very first, sharp attack part of a sound, like the initial hit of a drum snare or the pluck of a guitar string; essentially, the momentary burst of audio that occurs at the beginning of a note, which Traktor analyzes to automatically detect the beat and create a beatgrid for accurate syncing between tracks during DJ mixing. Key points about transients in Traktor:

• Beat detection:Traktor uses the transient information to identify the beat positions within a track, allowing for precise beatmatching and loop creation. 
• Analysis process:When you import a track into Traktor, it automatically analyzes the audio to locate these transient points. 
• Visual representation:You can often see these transients represented as vertical lines on the waveform display in Traktor, indicating the start of each beat.

Is there a solid explanation on what criteria Traktor uses to set (what your calling) transients after analysis using No Marker option ? (Preferences / Analyze Options).

Thanks

Sûlherokhh

It's part of the automatic grid detection. The grid will be aligned to the main transients. As long as you don't have at least 1 gridmarker (and you only see the transients) any function relying on quantization (quant, beatjump, certain periodic FX) will not work correctly.

John6

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/202109#Comment_202109

Oh ok.

So analyzing using "No Marker" chosen with zero Gridmarkers currently set, results in showing only transient markers within in the track when finished?

I was trying to establish how a Transient Marker and a Grid Marker can be in different places after analyzing / async using either the "No Marker" vs "Only Grid Marker" option. My issue was selecting the "No Marker" option and relying solely on the Transient marker to make a Grid Marker. In my case, 1st downbeat then lock BPM. The results were all over the place.

Naturally then I question how Transient Markers are created after analyze/async with "No Marker" chosen.

Im tryna help the next guy who might hit this road block.

I totally understand how "Only Grid Marker" option works. Im currently using it as my default and im enjoying it immensely!

John6

So analyzing using "No Marker" chosen with zero Grid Markers currently set, results in showing only transient markers within in the track when finished?

And Transient Markers will typically be located in a different place of the track than Grid Markers if using the "Only Grid Marker" option while analyzing / Async?

Again im breaking this down bc I suspect long time users are going to run into this issue moving to TP4 and go about it the same way I did. I couldn't wrap my head around the new Grid system so I was like F this (lol) im just gonna use "no markers" analyze option and rely on the transients to set my Grid Markers.

Then I learned using transients to set Grid Markers wasn't accurate.

Im still looking for a definitive answer on why we can't use Transient Markers to make accurate Grid Markers. Or why they are different then Grid Markers that Traktor creates on it own (ie "Only Grid Marker" option selected)

Thanks

lord-carlos

I don't think much has changed in that regard between TP3 and TP4.

Analyzing with no markers on TP3 also resulted in a ton of transient markers in places where no gridmarkers would be.

John6

Ok then its safe to say that using Transient Markers to make reliable Grid Markers is not possible using both TP3 & TP4 for no apparent reason.

So if your confused and decide to go this route during your transition from TP3 to TP4 your not going to like the results…

Deejay Gucci

Grid marker on TP3 is very good…. Grid marker on TP4 is…………….. verrryyyyy bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! payd for 10 year for nothing… LOL NI.

John6

I've tested both TP3 and TP4 using the exact same tracks.

The exact same Grids Markers were produced using both TP3 & TP4 versions.

No difference whatsoever.