Why is Ableton setting Komplete Kontrol / Kontakt VST volume to 0 when pressing stop?

Martin Schmid
Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member
in Komplete Kontrol

See linked video…

I'm confused why when I hit 'stop' it seems that the Volume property of the VST is getting set to 0 and causing automation to need to be reenabled?

What is going on.. and how do I 'fix' this... I don't want pressing Stop to cause that to happen.

https://youtu.be/kf_1S7ZYJCo

Best Answer

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,878 Expert
    edited September 15 Answer ✓

    Hate to break this to you but this has been an issue for some time, been discussed on the Ableton Forums over the years. Was an issue in V2 of KK and is now still in V3. The issue is KK as it can also happen with 3rd party plugins loaded in KK too.

    I never investigated the actual cause of it but it was always common when you stop playback the automation would disconnect and require re-enabling in Live when using an instance of KK. Yep, it is hell frustrating especially when you go to render out a project and find NONE of your recorded automation is rendered because you forgot to re-enable automation in Live.

    It may be something to do with how KK silences the audio output of KK when transport is stopped and this in turn causes automation to de-sync which causes Live to disconnect host automation. I wouldn't count on anything being fixed on this, you will have to set a mental reminder to always enable automation after stopping your project (painful, you bet)…

Answers

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    Someone on the Impact Soundworks (Shreddage) support Dischord said they believe this to be a Kontakt bug.

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    It may be noted that this seems specific to using Kontakt within Komplete Kontrol... if I use Kontakt as my instrument in Ableton, I don't have the issues.

    Here's detailed comparison of KK inside Ableton vs. inside Cubase (where there seems to be no issue)

    So... is the issue on Ableton? or is the issue on Native Instruments?

    https://youtu.be/5xJQPktVRCc

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    simpler way to reproduce… at end shows versions of Live, KK and K.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG8OTKgSN7k

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,274 mod
    edited September 13

    Thanks for the report.

    Which version of Ableton Live are you using?

    Which version of Cubase are you using?

    Which version of Kontakt are you using?

    Which version of Komplete Kontrol are you using?

    Which version of macOS are you using?

    Which hardware controller(s) if any are you using? And have you set up Ableton as outlined here https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406832231441-How-to-Integrate-Your-Kontrol-Keyboard-with-Your-DAW?

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    @Matthew_NI

    Did you not read what I stated above or watch the video?

    Live,KK,and K versions are all already provided.

    MacOS 14.6.1

    Cubase 13.0.41

    S88 MK2… The issue manifests whether the hardware is used or not.. but, yes, it is configured as per the article.

    IMG_5590.jpeg

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    FWIW.. I checked this in Live 11.3.21.. with both KK 2.9.4 and 3.3.2.. and the issue exists there as well.

    Also exists with other VST... not just those from Impact Soundworks… in this case, Thrill from Native Instruments:

    Can you imagine my frustration? I've been dipping my toe into music production w/ NI's Komplete Kontrol S88 keyboard… I have Komplete Collectors Edition 14… and have been learning Ableton now all for the last 2-3 years… Continually going back into projects wondering why they don't seem to sound the way they did when I was last working in them.

    https://youtu.be/M7tLfD3MSHQ

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,878 Expert
    edited September 15 Answer ✓

    Hate to break this to you but this has been an issue for some time, been discussed on the Ableton Forums over the years. Was an issue in V2 of KK and is now still in V3. The issue is KK as it can also happen with 3rd party plugins loaded in KK too.

    I never investigated the actual cause of it but it was always common when you stop playback the automation would disconnect and require re-enabling in Live when using an instance of KK. Yep, it is hell frustrating especially when you go to render out a project and find NONE of your recorded automation is rendered because you forgot to re-enable automation in Live.

    It may be something to do with how KK silences the audio output of KK when transport is stopped and this in turn causes automation to de-sync which causes Live to disconnect host automation. I wouldn't count on anything being fixed on this, you will have to set a mental reminder to always enable automation after stopping your project (painful, you bet)…

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    well, Cubase has competitive upgrade pricing… time to switch I guess.

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    Another issue w/ Live… not preserving the Configuration as saved… or perhaps not re-applying the configuration when loaded?

    https://youtu.be/zLrk6LI0LzU

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,878 Expert

    Well, all I can say on that is it is likely either a KK V3 issue or a Kontakt issue!

    I have used KK for a decade and other than the issue where I have to re-enable automation which I can live with (Pretty sure that only happens in Kontakt tho and not other VSTs but would need to check again, I don't use Kontakt much at all personally) I have never had issues like you showcase there.

    WHat you should do is the exact same test with Kontakt on a track without being in KK and see if the same issue occurs. That will at least tell you if the issue is Kontakt or KK.

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    That last issue exists with Kontakt 7 as well…

    image.png

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    For this last issue.. it seems if when using Kontakt, if I make sure to set the Automation lane to 100% for this particular control, then this does get preserved when closing/reopening Ableton/this project. The automation lane seems to control the triangle shown on the device (which seems to be driven by the red dot)… then this value seems to get 'multiplied' by the value defined in the MIDI CC, with the result shown by the blue dot.

    It's a lot to remember to setup..

    image.png

    I wish there was a way to show in Live that #009 corresponds to Force String.. instead of just showing the number.

    image.png

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,878 Expert

    So does this only seem to happen with Kontakt? Does automation ever get disconnected if you are using a different plugin loaded in KK? If not then it seems to be some kind of anomaly with Kontakt.

  • Martin Schmid
    Martin Schmid Member Posts: 90 Member

    seems to be Kontakt within Komple Kontrol. Seems to still be issue with Kontakt 8. I’ve a ticket opened with support. After over a month they still have not even acknowledged that the issue exists / is reproducible (nothing even indicating they’ve tried to reproduce).

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,878 Expert

    Sadly, that is a common case. You can spend a considerable time testing, noting down repro steps, making videos and posting everything in a simple to follow report and still have it ignored for years. That's why I have just given up.

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