How can I create a soft pedal like feature in Noire using Kontakt 6?

2

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  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro

    Pay no attention I just slipped into rant mode. Actually having sustained a moderate injury falling off my chair when I saw the Session Strings thread, I guess this issue was probably the last straw.

    (If by decent you just mean sufficient to cover your private parts, then I couldn't possibly argue.)

    Tinnitus is horrid for a musician. I expect you know that some sufferers benefit from filtering out specific frequencies from the music. This is something that Kontakt could do very well with EQ - you'd need to experiment.

    If anyone can sort you out, The Evil One will!

  • David B
    David B Member Posts: 14 Member

    How is it looking? I understand if you haven't gotten around to it.

    David

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,022 mod

    Yeah, sorry. Got preoccupied and forgot about it.

    Unfortunately, this is not going to work the way I thought it might. It really has to be built into the main script of the library.

  • David B
    David B Member Posts: 14 Member

    Thanks for trying. I'm really disappointed in the Noire product because of the pedaling implementation. I could live without a soft pedal because I knew before purchasing it that it didn't have one. However, since purchasing it I've discovered that there is no repedaling feature either even though it's advertised as having it and there is an option to select it in the UI. That's dishonest. I would not have purchased it if I knew that the repedaling didn't work. I'm a bit soured on Native Instruments and probably won't invest anymore time or money in their products.

    David

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro
    edited May 2022

    You can actually juggle scripts - even encrypted ones. Just save each script and load it back where you want it in the chain. In this case 2-3-4-5 to 1-2-3-4. Though as you yourself showed me, sometimes an empty script slot may be necessary for the instrument to work properly (I forget the circumstances). If this works here, writing a script to modify volume and EQ by cc in slot 5 would be a piece of cake.

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro

    P.S. If you try this at home, for God's sake use "save as" and give it a different file name.

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,022 mod
    edited May 2022

    Repedalling does work based on the help text description:

    "If the sustain pedal is depressed during note release, the remaining sound sustains."

    I just tested it and it works exactly as advertised. What was your expectation?

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro

    An even simpler solution to the "soft pedal" problem which doesn't need a script. It will diminish only volume when you press your pedal, and will work if the groups in your instrument have their volume modulated by velocity in the amplifier module. It does require some basic understanding of Kontakt programming, so don't read further if you don't have this and aren't prepared to spend a little time acquiring it.

    1.Set Edit All Groups

    2.In the Amplifier module, modulate volume a second time with Velocity.

    3.Automate the Intensity slider of your new modulator with your chosen cc (MIDI Learn).

    Modulation of Volume can only reduce it, so when the intensity slider is to the extreme L it will have no effect. When your pedal sends a big number ?64, ?127 it will probably attenuate the sound too much, so

    4.Activate the Modulation Shaper (first button on your Modulation panel), click "Active", and move the left-hand side of the graph up from 0 to around 50% or whatever gives the result you want.

  • David B
    David B Member Posts: 14 Member

    An important feature of repedaling is being able to pump the sustain pedal and recapture the vibrating strings from a previous note press and release. This can be done several times before the strings become completely damped. This is the way acoustic pianos work and every other VST I own, (Garritan, VSL, VI Labs, PianoTeq). Even the Grandeur (which I recently purchased on sale at Sweetwater) does it once (but only once which is kind of weird). The Noire doesn't do it at all. Here is an example of it being demonstrated with a VSL library.


    https://youtu.be/8xs-b_mBIpY?t=1674

    David

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,022 mod
    edited May 2022

    Noire also does it once exactly as in Grandeur (and others). I tried it, it does work, as mentioned exactly how the help text says.

    https://app.box.com/s/2foeq5z7k682qeljok81kicfh9m12ro6

  • David B
    David B Member Posts: 14 Member

    That recording did not demonstrate what the Grandeur does once and my other VST's do more than once. I'll record a video demonstrating the problem with Noire when I'm feeling better. I'm battling Covid right now. 100.6 temp. 🤒

    David

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,022 mod
    edited May 2022

    Sorry to hear that. At any rate, the feature works as designed. If I disable Repedalling, that second note in my example would end up sounding exactly like first one.

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro

    I think there's a little confusion here over terminology. All these effects are produced (in a real piano) by the dampers lightly touching the strings and then being raised again.

    What you're describing is half-pedalling - allowing the dampers to touch the strings by partially releasing the pedal then raising them again. This will attenuate the sound and change the timbre, and on a real piano can be repeated ad lib.

    Repedalling is a single event, and involves releasing the piano key, which will lower its damper, then quickly pressing the sustain pedal to raise it again before it has fully damped the strings.

    These are sophisticated effects and to be fully implemented need skilful programming and ideally (once again!) special samples. Some pianos don't bother at all, and the half-pedalling function (which like you I consider essential) is quite variable in its execution from one piano to another. (Incidentally make sure you have switched it on!)

  • EvilDragon
    EvilDragon Moderator Posts: 1,022 mod
    edited May 2022

    No I am not talking about half-pedalling at all. I play piano, I know these terms.

    What I showed in the above audio example IS repedalling on that second note - sustain pedal pressed after key release. It doesn't work like that if you disable the Repedalling button.

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 276 Pro
    edited May 2022

    An important feature of repedaling is being able to pump the sustain pedal and recapture the vibrating strings from a previous note press and release. This can be done several times before the strings become completely damped. (unquote)

    This is what I was talking about. I suspect the guy just hasn't switched on Half-pedalling.

    Dammit who likes this new format for the forum? You can't quote unless you include the whole post (the misunderstanding we just had wouldn't have happened with the old system!) No information about the date of the first post or how many people have read it. Editing is time-limited. And it takes ages to load each page on my Android tablet - I think the record for number of spinning circles on the screen at once is eighteen.

    (loud raspberry)

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