Maschine+ Clips workflow FUBAR

Andy Wt
Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor
edited March 31 in Maschine

System version: 1.5.1.0

Maschine version: 2.17.5(R0)

Firmware: 0.1.9

Case 1:

1. Reboot Maschine+

2. Create clip in Group 1 (which is already selected after boot): Press SHIFT+PATTERN and then Press Pad 1

3. Set clip length to 10 bars by turning Knob 4

4. Press IDEAS button and verify we have a project with one clip with POSITION 1:1:1, START 1:1:1, END 10:0:0.

BUG 1: Clip cursor size (4 bars) differs from clip length (10 bars). Reported to support long time ago, dont remember exact bug id

5. Without changing anything else select Group 2

6. Press PATTERN button

7. Switch to Pattern page by pressing Button 1

8. Create pattern with default length (1 bar) by pressing Pad 1

9. Set pattern length to 2 bars by turning Knob 4

10. Press IDEAS button

So after these steps:

BUG 2: Clip in Group 1 has been shifted to the right by the length of pattern in Group 2

BUG 3: There are now 2 Scenes in the project - Scene 1 is empty, Scene 2 contains Pattern 1 from Group 2

Not being impressed enough by this mess lets continue with

Case 2:

The following actions should be performed right after actions from Case 1. So if something additionally has been changed please repeat steps from Case 1 before proceeding further

  1. While being in Song mode switch to Group 1
  2. Switch to Clip mode by pressing Button 2
  3. Set Clip 1 position to 1:1:1 by turning Knob 1 (partially fixing resulting mess of Case 1)
  4. Select Group 2
  5. Switch to Section mode by pressing Button 1, as a result having at the bottom of the left screen: Clip 1 POSITION: #1, SCENE: Scene 2, LENGTH: Auto
  6. Increase length of current section (#1) by turning Knob 4

BUG 4: Clip 1 has been split into 2 clips at the end of the section

I cant see any sane logic behind such behaviour, in my opinion this functionality is totally broken in current M+ version.

Comments

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert

    Does the desktop application (2.17 or 2.18) work differently?

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor

    Cant tell, i use only standalone M+

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor

    @ozon Do you mean this is actually correct behaviour and everything works as it really intended? I suspect it should not work this way though. IMHO this is too confusing and pointless, especially splitting clip in two. So i inclined to take all above as bugs.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert

    If the M+ behaves differently than the desktop software, it can be reported as a bug of the M+. But if the desktop software behaves the same, it either „works as designed“ or has to be considered a bug of the Maschine application regardless of the platform.

    BTW, a couple of weeks ago I observed the same behavior on the M+ but since I never read the manual chapter about Clips, I thought it was my fault.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor
    edited March 12

    I've checked the following manuals:

    M+ manual pdf

    Maschine 2 software manual pdf

    They are both describing only basics of clips, section management, patterns etc. There are no hints about such strange behaviour. Btw Maschine 2 software manual also quite confusing - word Clip is used to describe two different type of entities in the arranger.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert
    edited March 15

    Testing in the desktop application Maschine 2 (2.18.4):

    BUG 1: Clip cursor size (4 bars) differs from clip length (10 bars).

    Don't know what you mean. There is no "Clip cursor". Maybe you are referring to the white rectangle in the left screen? That has nothing to do with Clips or Patterns but reflects the section which is showing in the right screen and can be moved and scaled.

    BUG 2: Clip in Group 1 has been shifted to the right by the length of pattern in Group 2

    Confirmed.

    BUG 3: There are now 2 Scenes in the project - Scene 1 is empty, Scene 2 contains Pattern 1 from Group 2

    Confirmed.

    BUG 4: Clip 1 has been split into 2 clips at the end of the section

    Confirmed. That was the confusing behaviour, I already observed on the M+ a couple of weeks ago. It doesn't seem to make any sense at all to have freely positionable Clips which are independent from Sections but then are split when Sections change in size.

    Bildschirmfoto 2025-03-15 um 16.55.36.png
  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert

    Same same in Maschine 3:

    Bildschirmfoto 2025-03-15 um 16.59.25.png
  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert

    This is now reported as Bug-01131.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor

    Don't know what you mean. There is no "Clip cursor". Maybe you are referring to the white rectangle in the left screen? That has nothing to do with Clips or Patterns but reflects the section which is showing in the right screen and can be moved and scaled.

    Indeed! 🤣 Thanks for clarification

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor
    edited March 17

    I'm actually quite surprised these bugs havent been mentioned or reported earlier. They are all related to a quite simple workflow - using a long vocal track as a single clip and adding some musical arrangement to it. As if all M+ users are doing is not more than just chopping samples in the confines of 8-bar loop 🙂

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,553 Expert

    Well to be fair, most boxes of this type are not designed for use in "tape recorder" fashion. The same is true of the MPCs. Roland Verselab maybe, but that's not cool for the pad bashers I suppose.

    I've not tried on my Push 3 but it's probably possible. Again though, different user base.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor

    Yes, i kind of understand that, but M+ hardware sounds and looks so beautiful and overall workflow is so convenient that its quite tempting to be used by much wider audience then just 'pad bashers'. But …

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,553 Expert

    I agree, it's a wonderful thing (baby). I guess the possibility is there for NI to add the functionality, especially if we could also record to an external storage device like SSD or M.2

    On the other hand, how common is it now to record a vocal for the entire length of a track? ← rhetorical

    Even going back decades, studio techniques involved multiple takes, punch ins, comping, cut and paste.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 155 Advisor

    On the other hand, how common is it now to record a vocal for the entire length of a track? ← rhetorical

    This is nice use case for stem splitting vocal and using it for remixes

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,008 Expert

    On the other hand, how common is it now to record a vocal for the entire length of a track?

    There are different other use cases than just vocal recordings where you might run into these Clip Oddities.

    Personally, I ran into it when using the M+ as mixer/fx/sampler/looper while playing around with Moog Mother-32/DFAM, recording 3 minute tweaking performances and the trying to arrange them.

    Another example which is in „pad basher“ territory and involves no audio, is using a clip to record a lengthy percussion improvisation on the pads, and then placing that in the arrangement. As soon as you change the overlapping Sections, its torn apart. Probably not exactly what everybody would expect.

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