Native Access - Q3 Update

Hayo_NI

Hi all,

Since we did a mid Q2 update post announcing our plans to better support Native Access and address the myriad of issues that have been appearing lately, I wanted to briefly create an update post to let you all know how we're progressing on this commitment.

First Release

Native Access shipped 3.12.0 at the start of July. This is a smaller release than what we've been doing lately, with the intent to reshape how we ship versions of Native Access moving forward. We're going lighter, and more focused. This time around, our focus was on some crucial and critical issues that have been appearing lately.

• Users have reported being blocked from entering Native Access at the Loading Products screen. We have tested this with a few community members who had reported this, and we feel confident that the new patch should fix this issue. If not, please comment that 3.12.0 did not resolve this issue and we'll continue to look into it. We are aware that sometimes it takes a while to load though, and we're looking into it.
• There have been many cases of users seeing an incomplete product list, or products being in DEMO mode when they shouldn't be. We identified the issue and are confident that this should be resolved in 3.12.0.
• Thank you to the user who created a post about the Uninstall on Windows 10 issue, where uninstallations would leave files behind and put a product in a broken state. 3.12.0 should solve this issue as well.
• The bug where Logic Pro crashes when trying to launch Native Access from within Kontakt had been patched a while ago, but for posterity's sake we’re putting it in this release notes for increased visibility as well.

There's a few minor bugs we've spotted too that we're patching, but for full information please check our release notes.

Second Release

Today we’re excited to present a long-desired feature we call Locate All. This will finally allow you to migrate all of your content products from system A to system B within seconds. We should note however that this does not work for expansion products yet, as they are not able to be Located yet. You will be able to find the Locate Product Content feature in the new Maintenance menu, where we will slowly be moving some other global management features in for more exposure down the line.

We also acknowledge that while we fixed the builder issue causing problems for MacOS 11 users back with 3.12.0, we did note that it suddenly began affecting Windows users. We patched it for the bulk of affected users with 3.12.1, but a handful of users were still seeing the issue happen. Thanks to the debugging support of one of our lovely community members, we were able to fully resolve it, and fix it for 3.13.0. If you were affected, please uninstall Native Access and the NTK Daemon, and reinstall from here.

However, please note that this release is not going to be available for users on MacOS 11. Our build systems and underlying tech already do not support the operating system anymore (Apple doesn't either). As such, we're officially cutting support for MacOS 11. Users on MacOS 11 will no longer have updates of Native Access available to them, and some products/product updates will not appear in your Native Access until you upgrade.

Downloads

We've found an opportunity to bypass some network or firewall limitations that might be blocking users from being able to download a product by introducing Proxy Support. We’re looking to ship this feature with 3.14.0, coming around mid August. Users who are constantly blocked from downloading our products should then at least no longer be consistently blocked, and not need to use less ideal measures to get access to their products.

Other Initiatives

We're making a ton of improvements. We're shipping lighter and more focused, with the intent to make for more stable releases as opposed to the ones we've been seeing since 3.8.0. As such, we're keeping our eyes peeled on how each release performs and getting better at the process.

We've been listening closely to your feedback about how Native Access operates, specifically around auto updates. We've ultimately come to the conclusion that for the short term we will not adapt our update flow. This is because our top priority is to patch issues at the moment, fixing bugs and improving the likelihood of successful deployments. Until we find Native Access in a more stable state, we're not making any changes here.

We will however revisit this decision in 2025. We agree with you that we're too strict about how we handle updates, and are looking into adopting a better way to still encourage Native Access updates, but without being too forceful about it. Once we have a clearer idea of how we'd like to proceed here, we'll be sure to update you and gather feedback.

In addition to this, we've recently rolled out a patch to prevent users from getting stuck in the position where you update an already installed instrument only for your Kontakt version to suddenly be considered too old to run it. We're refining this flow further throughout the quarter and making more lightweight fixes as we go. One area we're touching is Product Updates, where if we determine that your attempt to update a Kontakt Instrument will result in your Kontakt version being out of date, we will not allow you to update that instrument without also installing/updating to a compatible version of Kontakt. The goal here is to give you the agency to make that decision whenever you're willing to take the time to update.

Lastly, last year we were very slow to roll out to MacOS 14 (Sonoma). This year, we're doing the extreme opposite, and making moves to support MacOS 15 as close to out of the gate as possible. As I've mentioned before, Native Access needs to be the first in line to support new operating systems, so that you can reliably use Native Access to install products as they roll out support down the line. 

Sadly, this will also be my last official post as PM of Native Access. I'll be passing on the torch to capable hands in the coming weeks, so that the future of this tool remains in good hands. Thank you all for your constant feedback and passion, it's been a true privilege! I'll be in the comments for a week responding to your messages!

Hayo, PM of Native Access

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/33973/native-access-q3-update

Hayo, thank you for the update…both for NA 3.13.0, as well as for the status update in your post.

But the most important thing at this moment is…I'm sorry to see you go! 🤨You have been helpful and you've weathered the storm of us crazy folks in the forum! Thank you for all of your support these last few years, and I truly hope that you are moving on to an opportunity that is better and potentially more lucrative for you and your family. Whatever that might be, I wish you lots of luck! And don't be a stranger, okay? 😀

Rational

Hayo,

That was the best update post I've ever read by a PM. You are on it!

Then I read you're leaving… OMG. No. Just when we're getting traction again out of NI.

Hope there really are capable hands on board after your departure. They need to read this update and keep the same level of engagement and pro-activity in the tone.

mikegit

Thanks for the update news and future development info, sorry to see that you are leaving.

Regarding your Q3 update comments I agree that lighter releases could be a welcome change for developers and users. Although I’m glad to see this measured response to the ongoing problems with Native Access (any version) I have some concerns based on my 30 years of professional systems development and support in both MS and Apple environments.

When beginning to work with personal and mini computers in the 1980’s it appeared that file management and data issues, as well as computation issues were the core functions of computer systems. During a seminar given by HP in the early 1990’s the engineer giving the speech referred to programmers being distracted by “searching for answers for which there were no questions”. Primary data management services took precedence over sales presentation “feature bloat”. All system input, output, and calculation relies on storing and retrieving data and file management. Operating System software was the tool created to perform these functions. 

The on-going problems with Native Access suggest that file handling at the operating system level is not being addressed. Understanding file handling at the OS level is crucial to the function of installation management software. Whether or not the OS providers (MS, Apple) understand the problem is beyond NI’s control. Lasting solutions for Native Access will not be found until file and data handling issues are eliminated. 

In reference to your MacOS 15 focus, I would urge caution emphasizing rapid development, the lighter approach you mention is justified. I switched to Apple OS X about a year after Steve had returned to the company. We look back fondly to those years finishing with the Snow Leopard release as the most stable OS experience for personal computers. Unfortunately current OS releases from both industry giants do not live up to that reputation. These are challenging times for your developers, good luck.

FYI: my experience with installing NA 3.10.3 (f6d63dd / 1.17.2.0) 5/1/2024 might be be helpful, I have not opened Native Access since 5/17/2024:

5/17/2024 11 AM: Native Access v. 3.11.0 auto-installed today, no NA installations performed since.

5/7/2024: REPAIR WARNINGS AFTER INSTALL for 265 LIBRARIES (60 libraries not requiring Repair). Some of the libraries flagged “Repair” seem to play normally and still do as of 7/24/2024.

macOS 12.7.5 (21H1222), MacBook ProM1 Apple M1 Max, 32 GB memory, 1.24 TB free, all libraries on external SSD APSF drives

mikegit

After posting my comment I realized some explanation of my data usage comments might be appropriate. Testing “Repair”-flagged instruments in Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol functioned normally. I surmised that the appearance of the “Repair” text message was due to populating the error message field with incorrect text retrieved from a table or IF-THEN code. The plug-in functioned normally and it’s file location on my disk had not changed. There was no cause for the “Repair” flag to appear, the flag text was retrieved erroneously. Data was used that was inappropriate for the situation. What actually caused this to happen remains a mystery.

Hayo_NI

@mikegit This was a very intriguing and comprehensive post! Thanks for all of that information!

I think in our case the issue nowadays is mainly how we work with the network. As mentioned we have some ideas on how to approach it, but most file-allocation work is moving a lot smoother than it was two years ago. Still some work to do there, and something the team is on top of.

Regarding MacOS 15, we've started testing on the beta builds to see what top-level issues might arise that we need to address. So far nothing major has come our way, which indicates that no massive overhauls akin to Catalina or any security updates akin to Ventura are coming, which suggests that we should be able to accomplish our goal. That being said, MacOS beta builds are notoriously unstable and will see a lot of stuff get shipped, so we'll see how our early optimism will fare.

Since you're on 3.11.0, there might be an issue with your NativeAccess.xml file, which contains the contents of your products. If you update to 3.12 or preferably 3.13.0 this should be resolved/stabilized. More interesting is that NA 3.11.0 was auto-installed to your device…

LostInFoundation

Thank you for clarifications.

Some promising things can be seen

Monochrome

Thanks for the detailed update, Hayo.

Sad to see you go, though... It was refreshing to see someone being as transparent as possible. It will be greatly missed.

tempsperdu

What's happening here……………….

Same as previously, opens up to loading dependencies, then message saying loading dependencies taking longer than usual. See that NTK Daemon is doing its usual hobby of rifling through the VST 3 folder.

Turn off NTK Daemon in Task Manager and whilst NA2 shows loading instruments the not showing in Task Manager NTK Daemon is rifling through my Programs (x86) Folder.

Even after turning off NA2, NTK Daemon still continues……………….

Slightly worried that the future plans don't seem to mention the scanning issues plaguing all the major NI programs for some of us.

Hayo_NI

Hey @tempsperdu . Good spot, I forgot to add that in my post. We are actively looking into it. Our team picked up a research ticket last week and following the results from the research that will give insight into what might be happening here we will follow through with a fix. Hopefully we get something in by mid august. It's not just on our radar, it's being tackled!

While I'm on this, there's many things behind the scenes going on. Historically I try to give as cohesive of an update without disclosing everything that we're doing, otherwise I could write a book every time I'm here. We're continuing to fix bugs, improve performance, and stabilize outside of what I have mentioned above!

Rational

Sat on this for several minutes. Now it's sitting on this.

Win 11. Ryzen 3800.

Glad you're tackling it head on. Keep going guys!

Okay. Finally got to display my products. Took another several minutes for loading products but finally worked it seems.

Horizon Watcher

Wow. My 166 instrument NI install runs flawlessly on an M1 Max OS 12.6.9 for 2 years. I thought nothing of paying a few bucks to upgrade up to Kontakt 7. That one stupid move breaks all 77 Kontakt instruments in my Komplete 12 Ultimate install. The forced upgrade to 13.3.0 Native Access eliminates all user ability to troubleshoot. The repair/ maintenance / relink dialogs do nothing. I'm mid project (I knew better) and I've got 3 days in this blow down and neither Live 11.3.25 or Logic 10.7.4 will load a non demo serialized instance. Relinking library paths in the instrument itself does nothing. Looks like you guys are bricking my Komplete Kontrol MK32. Now you want me to buy a support subscription for a system wide blown down on your end. Maybe open up one phone number to sort this mess? SMH

Kaiwan_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168269#Comment_168269

Apologies for the trouble. I see you’ve already been in touch with our support team. We’ll continue troubleshooting with you there.

Kaiwan_NI

This thread has been live for a week, so I’m closing it now. Thanks, Hayo, for giving us an overview of the topics the future Product Manager plans to tackle and for all your quarterly updates.

We’ll share more details later on how the Native Access product team will engage with the community moving forward.