Will the original Native Access continue to be supported for older operating systems?

tmpc
tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

Specifically, Mac OSX 10.11.6.

Best Answer

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,887 mod
    edited November 2022 Answer ✓

    @tmpc We have legacy installers for Native Access versions that are compatible with 10.9 to 10.13: Native Access 1 Legacy Installers for Older Operating Systems

    These will not get an auto update to newer versions of Native Access (because not compatible) so you should be able to use them on your 10.11 system.

    @Vocalpoint On Windows, it's a different story since newer versions of Native Access are compatible with Windows 10 & 11.

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Answers

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro

    Not a MAC user - but I asked this question a while back when NA 2.x was just starting to get semi-stable and NI replied that NA v1.x is already deprecated and will not receive any further updates - for any OS old or new.

    NA 2.x is only way forward - as it should be.

    Cheers

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    Thanks for the reply, Vocalpoint.

    So the next obvious question is will NA 1 still be usable for older operating systems even though it has been depreciated? Or, are they going to actively remove any possibility of using it.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro


    I think you will need to roll the dice on that. I suspect that whatever pipelines, background locations and anything else needed for successful use of NA v1 will eventually all be shut down and fade away.

    Case in point - even up to a few weeks ago when I was still clinging to NA v1 - I started seeing weirdness with specific views when viewing my Installed plugins etc.

    One day I would view by Tiles or whatever was the default, and it was all good and then the next day the view would just be blank in NA v1. Took it as sign of things to come and just moved forward with v2 - which has been surprisingly trouble free thus far.

    I think you may be able to get away with NA1 for a short while longer but now that NA2 has reached its new 3.x plateau - where it now starting to get MUCH better and runs well - my sense is that NA1 is going to accelerate in its disappearing act.

    While not a Mac user - why the need to hang on to this old tech for OSX 10.11.6 - is there no OS upgrade path for that machine or what?

    Cheers!

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    If NI does decide to pull the plug on NA v1.I hope they give us enough time to come up with a plan to deal with it. I'm in better shape than most, as I have duplicate machines (both Mac and PC) and each machine has an additional bootable backup drive with everything authorized and ready to go on it. As it wasn't made unnecessarily thin, I can swap the internal drives out in my 2012 MacBook Pros.

    As for the need to hang on to "old tech", I work on particular pieces of music over many years. So, I need stability . . . which I have with my current set up. I stick with 10.11.6 because it's stable enough that I don't want to mess with it. But, as I'm finding out, although the modern computer music world can't be beat for flexibility and sound quality (including amazing virtual instruments), it's all throw away.

    I can update my MacBook Pros as far as 10.15 Catalina (a problematic OS, as I remember), but I would go to 10.14 Mojave (pretty good, as I remember). But, Mojave is the oldest macOS that NA v2 supports, so a future "screw you buddy" isn't far away. So, that's a loser, as well.

    If I do have to replace my Macs, it will be with Windows machines. Apple is an absolute PITA. Every time there's a new macOS, Apple users get to go through a period of the new OS not being compatible with their software, hardware, or both. I never see Windows issues like that. That said, I hope Windows 11 hasn't become like macOS in that regard, because I'm sure we'll eventually be required to go down the 11 path at some point.

    So, I'm going to be forced to trash perfectly good computers (that do everything I need) and buy new ones (great for the environment) because NI and other companies can't be bothered to design the hooks into their software to allow them to work as long as users have the hardware to run it on. I'm not asking them to continue development on software for old hardware and operating systems, just allow it to continue to work at its current level.

    So, NI, if you're listening, can you give me a heads up as to when you're going to pull the rug out from under me?

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro
    edited November 2022

    I can guarantee that it's not a matter of if - it's when in terms of NA1 going away. And NI gave us all plenty of heads up way back in the summer when NA2 first arrived.

    Actually - if NA1 is still working right now - I consider that a bonus.

    In terms of your hardware investment - if it's long term you really need - do not ever use a Mac. It is literally guaranteed a three-year life span without fail - where as a Windows box can be reworked, rebuilt and reused really until an OS becomes too dangerous to use on the Internet - but even that can be handled.

    Finally - while it seems you are not asking NI to keep NA1 up to snuff with code changes etc - by saying you want them to allow NA1 to "work" at its current level - you do realize that you are expecting them (in a way) to support you on this current level until when exactly?

    Are you expecting them to design each and every new Komplete instrument or effect or expansion offered in the future to be fully compatible with NA1 simply because you expect a "current" level or cannot (maybe) will not move forward? Or do you expect them to keep a pile of (presumably) high priced infrastructure (and the costs associated with supporting that) rolling for months and years to serve NA1 users?

    There is a lot going on with something like NA that no one ever thinks about and one needs to (sometimes) see this from the vendor side.

    Me - I view computer-based content creation as a pleasure and a money pit all at the same time. Costs and obsolescence are a part of the journey and that cannot be avoided if you are into this kinda stuff.

    My first rule is to stay away from any hardware that is out of my control - that takes care of the Mac problem. I recycle parts here endlessly and still have circa 2012 hardware running just fine. Second rule is for software and that is stay current where applicable. Sure, NA2 had some bumps early but it works great now. Conversely Windows 11 is a still a pile of ****** while the real value for a DAW user lies squarely with Windows 10 22H2.

    I would rather stay current and not worry about what vendors are going to do (or not do) and devote that energy to my music and content.

    Cheers

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    I more or less agree with everything you said. That is the very reason I added a PC to my multi-computer setup a few years ago and swore off any new Macs. All of my Kontakt 6 libraries go on that PC, as they won't run on my old Macs. I'm perfectly OK with that. But, I do think it's unreasonable (and wasteful) to force people to buy new hardware when all they need is a secret software handshake to use the old software. There's got to be low cost way to do that. Hell, I'd buy a special dongle if they made one that would fix the problem.

    So, I guess my perfectly working Macs will soon be in a landfill. 😥

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,887 mod
    edited November 2022 Answer ✓

    @tmpc We have legacy installers for Native Access versions that are compatible with 10.9 to 10.13: Native Access 1 Legacy Installers for Older Operating Systems

    These will not get an auto update to newer versions of Native Access (because not compatible) so you should be able to use them on your 10.11 system.

    @Vocalpoint On Windows, it's a different story since newer versions of Native Access are compatible with Windows 10 & 11.

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    Hi, Jeremy. Thanks for your reply.

    Yes, I know about and use a legacy NA v1 version. I also realize that they won't get an update to NA v2. But, the BIG question is whether you will continue support for them in the future. As with the reasoning behind discontinuing support for some older products a year or two ago (maintaining old infrastructure), will NA v1 have the same problem? Or, is it easily supported by the NA v2 infrastructure? I'm just trying to get an idea of how long it will be supported.

  • Psyearth5
    Psyearth5 Member Posts: 100 Helper

    I bought Maschine MK3 and upgraded Komplete 12 and i work hard releasing Music and year by year i am getting more the listener and my project in general Man From Mars Space Ambient and Ambient music is getting better but my income is not enough for paying bills and buying new PC , new Windows but i am trying to save money for upgrade to new PC and from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and i would feeling save and be more focused on Music production if i know that i could countinue with Win 7 and Software that i bought and installed and countinue with Maschine MK3 in order to produce new and as always better Music and save enough money for upgrade Software and Hardware-PC . My dream about Maschine+ maybe won't come true but at least it would be great and i would feel better with less stres if i know that i can countinue with Win 7 and instruments from Komplete 12. Having fluctuating 30K to 52K monthly listeners and over millions streams is not enough for Living as an Artist, i save around 30-40 $ per month and i will skip Maschine+ and i will buy new PC , new Windows 10 but i need to have working conditions to achieve this, I'm already stressed with other things in life and I would appreciate it if everything I bought from NI continues to work as it has because if Access 1 starts deleting instruments i use then i don't know how I will countinue. I believe in NI and i use NI software only from 2019. but growing as Artist is not quick process and i am really trying to improve

    quality with every new release and i am really trying and saving for upgrade and i will be happy with updates that i don't have on Windows 7 but till then, sometime this year until i save enough i need to have installed NI software to work . I hope for the best and i plan to use NI in future because i learned it and i adapt to NI software and quality of sound. PS being creative is not easy process and it can be very exhausting because it's something from the heart and mind that we don't quite understand untill we translate to Music . It would be fair that paid software that currently works on Windows 7 continues to work without updates and I believe that NI will make this transition easier.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro


    You do know that an upgrade from Win 7 to Windows 10 is free.

    And while I totally understand the challenges with being creative - we all have to deal with this. If you are serious about your music, your listeners, your streams etc - you need to reconcile the fact that at some point you might have to spend some money on some quality gear and stay current with required software.

    Windows 7 is completely unsupported by even Microsoft - and asking NI (or any vendor) to "keep it going" takes valuable time, talent and resource away from the rest of us - who have already made the choice to move forward and would like to see our "current" NI software investments move forward and get better.

    Any request to hold back that forward motion - especially when it involves an OS that is officially dead is quite frankly both selfish and unfair.

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    It is neither selfish or unfair. It is a request. Asking a company to maintain accessibility to older music software products is totally understandable. The music world is full of people who get very attached to their particular music making devices whether it be a violin or a particular piece of software.

    I currently use 10 year old computers running a 5 year old operating system. It does what I need to do. All I ask is that I can authorize the software (mainly sound libraries). It doesn't seem like too much to ask.

    A word of advice to Psyearth5: Stay away from dedicated hardware.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro
    edited February 2023

    Your "request" (and a few others in here whom inexplicably don't get it either) seems to revolve around the same general (albeit) strange observations:

    1. That users get "attached" to a piece of software (insert Windows 7 here) and then pull some dramatic comparison to hardware they can't live (or create without).

    Please do not try and compare your 10-year-old computer running a 14-year-old operating system (Windows 7 came out in 2009) to a Stradivarius or a 76-year piano or a 54 Strat. Your computer and (especially) the OS have zero bearing on anything in the actual creation of any music.

    Conversely, I totally respect that a creator may be relying on something like Kontakt 6 (or other parts of K12) to create their art. But ALL of those pieces can be authorized on any recent machine with NA2 on Windows 10 (or 11 if that's your thing).

    1. Users think that a request like "maintaining accessibility" is somehow free since they assume that all the pieces that go into authorization (which is clearly NOT just the Native Access 1 software) can just stay active with no cost, maintenance or consequence until the end of time.

    None of us have any idea what goes into the actual process of what Native Access does to activate our respective products. But one can assume it is much more than firing up NA1 on your circa 2013 computer and something magical just happens.

    And what if NA1 works one day and then the next it fails when some cloud vendor (or driver or Windows update or Linux/Unix service pack) decides to change a protocol or some security risk is discovered that needs immediate and permanent remediation? Or NI is suddenly asked to pay some unforseen charges by a third party to allow the old NA1 layout to keep functioning?

    Who is going to pay for all this maintenance of old servers, old code, firewalls, network infrastructure, database development and so on that make NA possible?

    Certainly not you (or anyone else that wants to keep Win 7 going until 2047) as if you get your way - you never have to pay for anything again. And if it's not you - then it must be users like me (who actually upgrade at a regular cadence) that will pay for the maintenance for this so called "free" authorization infrastructure.

    All I can tell you (as I work in big government IT) - NOTHING is free, and nothing can ever remains "as is" with a backbone like the one that makes Native Access possible. If no one is covering the cost of this - even if only to keep it running day to day - then it serves no business sense to keep it rolling - especially when something much better (NA2) already exists.

    1. Users think that even though an OS is now actually discontinued by the very company that made it (Microsoft) that it's still useful and NI should somehow embrace that thereby enabling a small pocket of users to keep on using it.

    If software vendors actually did this (in the real world) - there would be no reason for any of us to upgrade anything - ever. We could simply install an OS and our software, never buy another computer for 20 years and just keep complaining and rocking until the PC dies and we are forced to finally make a change.

    Luckily in actual reality - NI (Like all third party vendors) will respect the standard lifecycle time frame as determined by MS and will fully discontinue support for Windows 7 and certainly dump NA1 in short order as it makes no sense from a business (AND technical) perspective to keep any of this old ****** going - especially now that even NI cannot get support on this OS.

    NI recently killed off a raft of old tools and instruments like Absynth etc when it no longer made any sense to invest time, talent and resource into them. This scenario will be no different.

    All I can say is its lucky you guys don't use Apple products - they wrote the book on "enjoy your computer/OS while you can because time is ticking..."

    Maybe NI throws you guys a bone with some sort of manual license key or maybe they consider asking you to pay to keep this old NA1 thing going.

    That would certainly tell us who is really serious here and who isn't.

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    Man, you sound angry.

    Don't talk to people like your opinion is a fact. Everything concerning music (and all art, for that matter) is an opinion. It isn't physics. If I hold the opinion that my system and sound sources used to create my music are important enough to me to want to maintain them, who are you to say I'm wrong? If I manage to do it, why should it matter to you? And, if part of that "managing to do it" involves convincing NI to maintain access to older libraries, why should you care? If it is too much trouble for them, they will let me know.

    By the way, I'm a retired engineer who worked in the Musical Instrument space for 30 years. My 10 year old computers are Apple products, running OS X 10.11.6. I also use PCs running Win 10.

    Frankie says relax.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro
    edited February 2023

    My opinion is my opinion as is yours. You can interpret it any way you want - I can't stop you.

    And angry - not at all :)

    But I believe I have misunderstood your angle if it's Apple based( vs Win 7) - my apologies on that as I cannot speak to anything Apple in terms of maintaining access to NA1

    If you are running Win 10 - then you are good to go.

    And you are correct - they will let you know :)

    VP

  • tmpc
    tmpc Member Posts: 61 Member

    . . . until the dreaded Windows 11. (Cue the scary music.)

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