Does the NI Forum Community Culture need a change?
Comments
-
Upon further reflection of this thread title....
The overall NI Community does NOT need a culture change.
Instead, just a few within the community need a diaper change.
🙃
4 -
No. That’s not what I’m basically saying
One more note to be clear: I’m not saying that people that misbehaved should not be corrected.
What I’m discussing here is just the larger picture: do we simply want to put in place instruments that will allow to deal with the misbehaving better or do we want to diminish the number of misbehaviors?
Both things are needed. My hope is just that the instruments will be there, but needed only in rare occasions.
And about what you say
People need to learn how to control their anger and if they are unwilling, then they should be reprimanded, IMHO
I agree. And the way to make those people learn how to control their anger is by teaching them.
For some simply punishing them should work. But years of study in pedagogy showed the opposite
1 -
There is a lot of truth to that, but another part of the OP asked for the moderation team to step up and to their credit, they have.
And they are now making improvements/changes based on the feedback from everyone. So all is not lost. We can't change anyone, nor should we try. We should try to improve ourselves. And better tools to help us all keep things positive and productive are most welcome.
0 -
This is the sort of reply I expected. Ive already spent plenty of my time here, elaborating and explaining what I feel are good strategies for managing customer service issues in a customer service space (I think some want to call it "community" support), and if you do what I did (scan the forum categories and take it all in) you can see the posts and replies that escalate customer tension and frustration.
Pretending its hard to see, that my prior comments did not already offer constructive strategies, or claiming my own objective analysis is "very well illustrating the problems brought by the OP", lol, is just you falling into that same rut. This is a CHOICE you've made.
Re-framing the culture on the forum as "needing change", and then clearly defining polite but firm brand criticism as the "problematic" culture that needs the change.... isnt the big populist win you think it is, and will shoot the brand in the foot over time as this reputation spreads in places you cannot brand manage.
I mean that's the reason for this thread and this topic - the brand stepped in it, and is now trying to re-frame that as the customers behaving badly? I mean this looks *so bad*, in terms of the response to rising complaints.
Are you (and every person shifting blame to customers) making the claim there is some sort of conspiracy to harm NI as a brand coming from random people on the forum? What are you suggesting, in terms of "the problems" angry customers cause here? Are you trying to alter the client/vendor relationship on the basis of shielding company reps from angry customers, rather than going to the root of the problem and reducing the number of angry customers? I think this could use some illumination.
0 -
I said I didn’t see an “I don’t want to be the chosen one. Let’s discuss why to you it seems so”. The second part of the phrase is the important one.
And I read your words very carefully. In your opinion I misinterpreted them, which doesn’t mean I didn’t read them carefully.
As I explained later, to me users dissatisfaction is part of the reason why more people are behaving wrongly (and I underline that I DO think they are behaving wrongly).
Therefore, to me speaking about users dissatisfaction also in this thread is pertinent. And therefore saying to someone “there are other threads giving a voice to dissatisfied customers like you” and “you are in the wrong place” are not correct statement to my eyes.
This is why I said what I said, not to put words in your mouth. Those words, to someone thinking that also that part of the discussion is pertinent here, can be read the way I did.
Now I know that many of you don’t see the pertinence I see, but still doesn’t change the fact that another user thinking this could help the “forum community culture” is another piece of the puzzle.
I’m sorry that you felt offended by that user’s words (and surely his way was not the way I would have expressed). What I wanted to underline is just that we have to take everyone’s thoughts in consideration.
About being “incendiary”: as much as we need users to be more polite, we also need users to be less inclined to be “set on fire” by other users opinions
0 -
...to speak about really significant matters, probably you don't see the posts i see...
not rudeness or aggression maybe (usually) but an unbelievable amount of ignorance... even for the very basics...
ignorance annoys me 100 times more than any kind of ruddiness
...just saying :-)
also, many times i see uncivilized behavior,
you spend 2 hours to explain, with long texts, images, links... 7-8 answers
and... then they disappear without a simple "thanks" or even a "like",
again, i prefer much-much more a rude but honest or straight speaking person, than those kind of people.
in fact, i do not respect such people at all... thankfully they never return... usually they make 1-2 posts and disappear...
...just saying, again... no need to debate on this :-)
0 -
"Dissatisfied customers like you", as if this is a pejorative? A class of person to fit me and "people like me" into? lol
Yeah, and Im an every-day decades long customer of this brand, patron of the earlier community, and patron of a few other large online music communities, and I've spent 1000s of dollars investing in that earlier community when I thought it was a safe, useful, long term investment. Then things changed, and my investment motivates me to write about it here.
But here you are, along with a dozen or so other newer accounts, making claims about how this culture needs to change, being mostly backed by NI staff, and then working those large threads for days and weeks at a time -- your own personal, uncompensated time -- attempting to build a populist case for censoring angry customers.
You and others are building a case for "angry customer" to become a pejorative, and for comments without obscenities in them to fit into that category if the customer is openly impatient or frustrated. And you do so in a sea of comments and posts from angry customers, seemingly without awareness of this. I wager this behavior is brand manager behavior, and I dont need anyone to agree with me.
0 -
Message canceled.
I wasn’t following the request to not start a debate.
And I’m also starting to think that my opinion here is not useful, nor taken in consideration (and to regret not having the strength to stick to my decision to be less involved in this forum)
Therefore I’ll leave this discussion to the ones more inclined to agree the ones with the others
0 -
Fair enough. I do agree with all of the above.
0 -
As I’ve said before, I was openly impatient and frustrated many times here and not once I’ve felt censored or limited in what I could say.
I was never rude (“angry”), so maybe that helped, hmm?
1 -
Dear @LostInFoundation
I'm afraid your can't escape this, since your original comment came to my e-mail. 😉 So, i feel i have to answer to you because even if we has discuss those things in the past (both publicly and private) you still don't get my point of view and you are continue to generalized my answers sometimes.
I could just send you a message, but i decided that those answers are connected to behavior, so they are not off-topic and it might be helpful for mutual understanding.
So i will clear it one more time for you. First of all for my point of view, things are never "black or white". There is always a "but", a "maybe", a "probably", or other significant small words who are capable to change the meaning of an entire document, yet, few pay attention to them.
You wrote:
1- If you don’t want a debate, maybe it would be better not to post such strong opinions
I didn't wrote "i don't want". I wrote "there's no need". The difference is big enough.
2- Ignorance is the seed of knowledge.
Absolutely not. Ignorance is the mother of evil. At least for those who do not seek knowledge. You paraphrase Socrates here, but you didn't really understood him. Socrates believed that the only way to attain knowledge was to first admit that you don't have any knowledge. This may seem counterintuitive, but it's actually a powerful tool for learning. By acknowledging our own lack of knowledge, we can open our self up to new ideas and perspectives.
He never spoke about ignorance but about lack of knowledge. These two things have a very different concept in ancient philosophy than in modern English. In ancient Greek, ignorance is a disease state of mind. It has nothing to do with lack of knowledge! (sorry for the bold characters, this is the very essence of Socratic philosophy and very few really understand this point, even among Academics).
However his philosophy, no matter how great, it was just one of the 32 major paths of Greek philosophy and one of the hundreds of the Global philosophy.
Also, in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali it is said that ignorance is the cause of all suffering, a very deep illusion which colors all our perceptions.
3- I’m more than sure me and you are very ignorant in many other fields.
Of course we are, no doubt about it. But the huge difference here is, that we want to learn! While others love their ignorance and do whatever necessary to keep it that way. Our modern world provides millions of similar examples (...just watch the Kardashians once, to see what i mean... 😝)
4- Does this make of us people to despise?
I never used such word in my comment. Check again. But lets say it did. So, i do not despise ignorant people. I despise ignorance and the people who choose to stay ignorant. Those who do not know but they want to learn, are my brothers and sisters. Those who want to stay ignorant are not. It is that simple and it is my personal choice. But this does not mean that i wouldn't help them if needed. It means that i will never socialized in any way with them. Again, my choice!
5- Quite a strange statement coming from someone who says he loves to help others
Again, you're jumping to conclusions (here, maybe I am also to blame, for the excessive way I sometimes express myself). I do not "love" obviously! "I like", or "i prefer" are more right terms. I can do this for anyone, at first. However:
- Never for those who they are not willing to help themselves, for those who are not willing to learn, or for those who do not have a sense of respect or gratitude.
- Never at my expense. I am not mother Teresa.
That's all, i hope this time things are clear enough. Also, please understand that you and your voice are essential to this forum! Your opinions are educated enough and unique enough. Forum needs you and i like to read you (...well, most of the times 😊). You just need to accept that we can not always agree with your points.
I wish a happy New Year to you and everyone who read this. 🎅
2 -
As the forum sign-up has been mentioned previously, any chance a reminder could be added to fill in the profile on signup? Particularly the system spec as that's always helpful when trying to diagnose a problem. Saves the first few responses being "Mac or Windows?"
-- Mike
6 -
Not to start a debate…but…
In my opinion you are mixing too much 2 concepts: ignorance and stupidity.
Ignorance comes from ignoring and is (or can be) just the lack of experience with something (or never having met a determined argument, therefore ignoring its caveats).
I never said that Socrates spoke about ignorance…you spoke about it. And if we take as starting point that ignorance just means not knowing something, saying “ignorance annoys me” IS a strong opinion. And I never wanted to paraphrase Socrates (that’s your field, as a Greek man). I just invented a similitude with the seed, being it the starting point of a tree, as ignorance is the starting point of knowledge. In this case “I know I don’t know” has nothing to do with it.
About stupidity…even this concept can have 2 nuances…one can be stupid because he is a bad person or even just because of a lack of…let’s call them…”possibilities”.
Therefore, for the way I want to approach things, attacking or being annoyed by ignorants but also by the second form of stupidity is not the best thing someone who is in a better position can do.
About your last paragraph, thank you. But this time is probably you who didn’t understand me completely. It’s not that I need to accept that people can disagree with me. I’m more than ok with people that don’t agree with me. I even think this is one of the few way to be enriched. If everybody was of my same opinion, how could I learn something new and improve? If you read again what I said in this thread, all I was saying is exactly the opposite: not that people must agree with my (or anybody else) opinion, but that they need to take those opinions in consideration, even if they are different from theirs. Specially when taking decisions that will affect everybody, and not only them. And specially when I’m not so sure that those different opinions are not the majority ones…checking the forum, the VAST majority of threads are about things that are not working by NI side and from users who need help to resolve things that NI itself should fix (or even better get correctly from start)…like in a scale of 90 to 10. Therefore, as I already said, if they want the forum to be a better place probably THIS is the starting point…but they don’t seem to agree
I stop here, because all of this is more of a philosophical and ethical discussion. And even if I see how much you like to have this kind of confrontations and show what you know about this or that philosopher, I don’t think this belongs too much here, outside of an exchange of a couple of posts. Maybe in a philosophy forum?
BTW: I know how the forum works, and therefore that my canceled comment was still readable by you in the email. And since it was directed to you, I canceled it here, so the others won’t be annoyed by that while the direct interested was still able to see it 😉
0 -
Well... whatever pleases you :-)
I don't agree on many things you wrote, not because they are wrong but because i see no direct connection to what i wrote... but hey, i'm on a "new year mood" right now, and i don't want to go deep, plus you are right about having such discussion in another type of forum...
Cheers! 🍷🍹
2 -
So what do we do when someone is mad and they just need to vent and take it out on us?
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 19 Welcome
- 1.4K Hangout
- 60 NI News
- 736 Tech Talks
- 3.9K Native Access
- 15.9K Komplete
- 1.9K Komplete General
- 4.2K Komplete Kontrol
- 5.5K Kontakt
- 1.5K Reaktor
- 365 Battery 4
- 817 Guitar Rig & FX
- 418 Massive X & Synths
- 1.2K Other Software & Hardware
- 5.5K Maschine
- 7K Traktor
- 7K Traktor Software & Hardware
- Check out everything you can do
- Create an account
- See member benefits
- Answer questions
- Ask the community
- See product news
- Connect with creators