Metadata i/o overhaul - read/write multiple genres/artists, custom fields, etc

alec.tron
alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro
edited October 2022 in Share Ideas for Traktor Pro

Hi,

since the first version of this thread was deleted when I re-resurrected the old feature requests (I was asking for Library & Metadata overhaul in the same thread... and it got first locked by Matt-NI - and then it disappeared for reasons unknown... Matt_NI & me chatted about this - and it's logged as an issue with the forum vendor), here's the same request, split up in 2 feature requests. But - they need to go hand-in-hand, otherwise there's little value gained by either...

So, as a resurrection of this:

As a TLDR:

Metadata container technical specifications clearly define how to add:

  • multi value support [i.e. multiple genres, artists, etc] as well as
  • custom fields

The former was made part of the ID3 spec (for mp3s) in 1999... and we really need Traktor to support this in 2022 for formats where this is clearly defined [id3, vorbis, ape - else ?], as well so we can read/write [i/o] our multi-value metadata in Traktor as well as read/sort/write to our custom tags [as an example, I maintain an 'Energy' field, an 'Instrumental' field, 'Instruments' etc - not having access to these in my DJ tool is a real bummer - and I am still forced to re-write multiple tags into a 'sanctioned' field Traktor can read]...

Cheers.

c.

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Comments

  • kidvector
    kidvector Member Posts: 3 Member

    +1000 to this. The 1 genre, no custom fields really limits the power of smart playlists for me. I'm forced to subvert the limited options available to allow me to add additional information to tracks, colour, rating, comments, label etc. + from a workflow perspective it really slows me down when organising my collection. To just have tagging functionality would be an absolute game changer in terms of collection management, multi-value support would be fantastic too.

    From a developer perspective it might not be as fun as creating new features like Pattern Player or integrating Ozone Maximizer, but my God would it fundamentally improve the experience for many, many Traktor users.

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro
    edited July 2022

    Re 1 genre...

    Oh you can have multiple genres on your files and Traktor "can" read and display them (:D)... you just have to live with 2 things:

    • Traktor, on analyze, will remove all multi value delimiters [i.e. remove the NUL Characters for id3, and combine all single fields into one on vorbis...(or, sometimes remove all but the first...) ]. Meaning, you have to fix every metadata header of files Traktor was allowed to touch after each analyze/playback, and that is not realistic for +95% of the general user base, as you would need to write your own program/parsing scripts to fix these messed up files...
    • And, inside of Traktor, you end up with a not so useful genre list such as this (courtesy screenshot from @radiokrishna ): https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/metadata-handling-multi-value-tags-i-e-more-than-1-genre.327465/#post-1834161 ) where all multi values have been concatentated into a single string (i.e. when I attempt to use Traktor's built in genre browser, I see a list of 1000s of entrys - i.e. every unique permutation of multi value combinations becomes a single genre for traktor...)

    Thanks for being vocal about this @kidvector !

    Churs.

    c.

  • Demus
    Demus Member Posts: 151 Pro

    Try one tagger it's free. Really good multi genre...

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro
    edited July 2022

    Most half-way capable music players/media managers do support multi-vale as well as custom field metadata (I myself use foobar2000 and MusicBee, so no need for me for yet nother - and a good 95% of my music library does carry multi value tags...).

    Which is why this is so frustrating - that Traktor, the professional DJ tool from NI, does not support what dozens of free media players/managers do support, and have for decades, i.e. the metadata containers' technical file format specifications [i.e. https://id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames, https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html, etc ]...

    c.

  • kidvector
    kidvector Member Posts: 3 Member

    @alec.tron has there been any indication from NI that this is on the horizon?

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro
    edited July 2022

    Hey @kidvector

    This topic has been one of the top5 recurring requests throughout the last ~4 official feature-request forums/feature-request channels from NI over the last 15 or so years. If you were to also add general 'metadata issue/bug fixing' to this, it would have been a constant number 1 [i.e. there's probably thousands of "Traktor stop overwriting existing key values" and "concatenating multi value strings" bug reports in the olden channels/forums... at some point over the years, all people but the very new stopped complaining about this seemingly...]

    On the last Feature Request board [ https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forums/feature-request.399/?order=post_date&direction=asc ], that ran from 2018 to 2022 Multi-Value Metadata support even was the 2nd most requested thread (with 26 votes.... after flexible beatgrids with 29, and "XDJ-1000mk2 Support ... Please!", the later was then finally fulfilled in 2020 ish, so it jumped off the feature request list... :D).

    As for indications from NI - throughout the last 15 years, I had a fair few communications with various NI folks about this [as well as the often requested library/browser improvements...] and the bottom line was always that is very much on the radar and should come at some point - but in all fairness, no official statement/commitment or date/roadmap was ever mentioned.

    But, I'd think if people keep being vocal about this, there's hope NI might finally act - especially seeing many have to make a decision at the end of this year if they're staying with Traktor, or will switch, once the free Pro subscription runs out.

    I still believe it's the one feature where NI/Traktor could one-up Serato & Rekordbox [as neither of them has multi-value or custom-field metadata support either at this point], and just for that it doesn't compute for me why NI still hasn't prioritized this so far... but, since I've been wishing for this for a good decade now, I am way past holding my breath on this. Also, with subscription and all, this might be the last few months with Traktor for me as well; very much depending on what NI manages to deliver until the free pro subscription runs out...


    TLDR, let's see what the next weeks/months will bring, eh ? ;)

    Churs.

    c.

  • DigitaLiam
    DigitaLiam Member Posts: 2 Member

    I've very surprised this has as few up-votes as it does - 10 at the time I am posting this.

    I want a Genre field that supports multiple values so I can create useful smart playlists (i.e. I can tag my songs with multiple genres and therefore it shows up in multiple smart playlists). I want to create a custom field for "Energy Level" like alec.tron mentioned. My hack is to make the rating field a combo of how much I like the song and how much energy it has. Not ideal as it diminishes both the concept of rating and energy level. I love lots of low energy songs. I love lots of high energy songs.

    I use lots of software tools. If NI needs examples of how to implement custom fields that support searches, please check out Asana or even Atlassian Jira. I'd love for their simplistic UI/UX.

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro
    edited August 2022

    RE: "My hack is to make the rating field a combo of how much I like the song and how much energy it has. Not ideal as it diminishes both the concept of rating and energy level."

    what you could do in the meantime:

    Get a media player that supports multi value & custom fields & start creating this data, as this takes a lot of time, depending on your library size... [I have close to 10k vinyl/cd records, and a similar stack of digital releases... and this is a constant WIP, tagging your library with relevant/subjective data...]. I'd recommend MusicBee if you're on Windows.

    Then, set up your auto playlists with the above already - and export via the itunes xml import [these are then static, but better than nothing...].

    And finally - with automation/batch/metadata tools, you can then fairly easily pump your custom values, into other fields that traktor can read, but which you do not use [i.e. for me Remixer is one of those.... many use the comments field as well] and then re-write the values into those 'sanctioned' fields [via batching/automation - but, going down that route - you also need to employ a thorough backup regime as one error with batch/automation scripts can mess up ALL your files...]



    Re kidvector

    & indications from NI, there's a browser rework listed as a priority now in the roadmap for Q3 - this could include a metadata i/o overhaul:

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/5305/traktor-pro-3-feature-roadmap-q3#latest

    But, it might just as well not...

    Guess only time will tell yet again.

    c.

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro

    Aye, for me this, and the browser overhaul that need to go hand-in-hand with this, is the one fundamental & singular priority as well...

    c.

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 71 Pro

    Looks like request that do not reach the arbitrary number of 30 votes (within a given time frame ?) are going to closed by NI, see: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/3376/quantize-value-ability-to-change-from-just-whole-beat#latest

    Interesting approach (that I wouldn't agree with for various reasons) - is that explained anywhere @Kaiwan_NI ? i.e. why 30 votes, and in what timeframe [looks like it's within 3 months...] ?


    About the metadata topic - If anyone feels strongly about this metadata topic as well, I guess the above means this would need to gather a lot more people interested in this topic (if anyone has a strong social media/dj group presence, feel free to link it up to motivate people to show interest in this metadata topic)... as it stands currently, this would be closed as well...


    c.

  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 2,525 admin

    Hi @alec.tron thanks a lot for submitting this idea. Unfortunately it didn't receive 30 votes within 3 months so we're closing this post.

    Note that our ideas section doesn't reflect the Traktor team's backlog. Even if this idea hasn't been brought up to the team at this time, that doesn't mean it'll never be implemented in the future.

    For more info about how your feedback reaches NI, please have a look here.

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