Time to tell the truth about NI after 20 years in the business

NI-SUX · 2023-05-04T12:17:58+00:00

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I loved NI Maschine. It was a must-have, but...

Today, I strongly advise staying away from NI.

There is no support and no care at all.

They focus solely on selling music banks, as if we actually cared about that!

Their products are expensive and have very little use. Sometimes they even sell VSTs you already owned from 10 years ago, but NI collaborates with other companies to resell you the very same stuff you had already purchased! They're thieves!

Their commercial policies are competitive and abusive.

There's often no backward compatibility!

They ripped us off over 32-bit VSTs that are now unusable! It's great for those who spent money on them and now can't use them or even get a refund.

Now I'm stuck with NI because I can't work on my tracks with the newest versions of their software. They removed options, and the expansions or VSTs you bought from them are now unusable. Do you think they will make it right, offer refunds, or provide any compensation? Hell no! They don't care and they aren't listening.

Do not get involved with NI! It has been the worst experience ever, especially if you are a beginner. I have 20 years of experience with DAW and making music, and all you'll do is spend money over and over until you realize you're being taken advantage of!

I used to own an Audio4, which I used for mixing and producing. Now you need two soundcards, one for production and one for mixing, as if any soundcard couldn't handle both. NI locks you in and forces you to get two soundcards if you want to DJ and produce, or get Maschine. It's all about spending money. I hope greed consumes NI!

If you're a professional, stick with what you know and stay away from NI products!

This is the best advice you'll get!

Massive, Kontakt, Komplete... it's all a con! I owned most of these VSTs since their early versions when they weren't owned by NI. Little by little, they integrated many VST plugins into Kontakt, Komplete, or Massive, or whichever user interface they decided to force upon you, which is nothing but a sort of VST bank, doubling the processing power... makign your production experience a real consumerism circus

I'll stop here because this is not rage; it's a piece of advice to anyone considering purchasing an NI product: just don't do it. There are better options out there!

Hey NI, prove me wrong! Let's debate this and see if you are morally inclined to do what's best for users! I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

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Comments

ShelLuser

There is no support and no care at all.

And yet we have this community where official staffers roam the place, where you can even poke 'm and they'll more than often respond. And of course the official support section.

They focus solely on selling music banks, as if we actually cared about that!

Do they now? And yet we recently saw the release of the new Kontakt 7 version, the discontinuation of Absynth 5 (seems strange if all they care about it selling no matter what) and of course... what about all those 3rd party products that are heavily featured on their store page?

Trollbait much?

As if NI are forcing people to buy their stuff. It's not their fault if people are dumb enough not to do any research on the things they buy, only to end up disappointed because ... oh dear... you actually need to understand how to use this stuff?!?! 🙄 Ignorance is bliss these days and of course it's always someone elses fault.

Let's ignore the fact that you can always request a refund, or that NI even allows us to re-sell our software licenses. If you think this is evil you're going to have a meltdown on Steam I guess. 🤣

Their commercial policies are competitive and abusive.

There's often no backward compatibility!

They ripped us off over 32-bit VSTs that are now unusable! It's great for those who spent money on them and now can't use them or even get a refund.

Do you got any arguments to back up any of this nonsense or are you just spouting off in your mindless rant? You should lay of the beer I think. 🍻

See, because I happen to have arguments here...

Backwards compatibility

Apart from the fact that I seriously doubt if you even understand what this actually means... so... Kore got discontinued back in the days and one of the key instruments which I heavily used was North India. In all fairness: it definitely took 'm a while and the first attempts of using Kontakt for this were plain out "so so". However... India has become a solid replacement.

In fact, I can say the same for many of the previous Kore instruments.

And another thing... NI hardly discontinued anything over the past years.

32bit VST

Apart from the fact that many NI users consider those more annoying than anything else (they kinda get forced on us) ... so how come that Native Access still requires a 32bit VST location?

But most of all... do you even realize that VST is a licensed standard from Steinberg?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

And with licensed I am referring to the fact that whatever Steinberg dictates goes. There's a reason why iZotope has started to release VST3 devices and gave up on VST2. I really dislike all of that but the reason is simple: because Steinberg dictates as much, and they own the rights to the VST standard.

So yah... you're barking up the wrong tree here. Making me convinced that you have no idea what you're talking about and are probably only trolling.

Sometimes though... one has to feed them trolls for your own amusement. I mean.. don't judge. People also go to the zoo afterall.

And yeah, oh dear.. you can't get a refund after having purchased something for over 5 years. How DARE they! 😂

... of course you can still try to re-sell your license but I realize that this fact doesn't fit your narrative so it should be conveniently left out. Oops! 😜

Now I'm stuck with NI because I can't work on my tracks with the newest versions of their software. They removed options, and the expansions or VSTs you bought from them are now unusable.

Are they now? That's new to me.

So here I have Maschine 2 FX, latest update, which I sometimes like to use to turn my Maschine controller into an effects rack. If you never tried this before... hmm, that could make for a cool guide I think.

Anyway, back ontopic (as if anyone cares): notice Absynth 5 in there? Now, if we want to talk old(er) we're talking Komplete 13, Kontakt 6 and Absynth 5. For some strange reason though I still heavily use these to this very same day.

Do you think they will make it right, offer refunds, or provide any compensation? Hell no! They don't care and they aren't listening.

Can't say I blame 'm. The only reason I am paying attention right now is for fun & giggles and nothing more. If this rant resembles the kind of support requests you sent their way then yah, I can easily understand why someone would just delete it and move on. Courtesy is a 2 way street afterall.

In other words: you're trying to put the blame of your own ignorance onto others. Convenient.

Sorry bud, but you're only displaying a massive amount of ignorance here.

Because the #1 issue with regards to synths in general? Yah, the thin line between being an artist or a hoarder. When do you draw that line? And for the record: I can definitely agree that Native Instruments makes it very tempting to buy into "more". It's true.

But it's not their fault if you decide to go with poor decisions.

20 years you say? I've been messing with digital audio ever since the Commodore 64. Back in the day where your sequencer was nothing more but a huge row of numbers for you to enter and customize. I guess you realize your arguments are piss poor and thus need to try and turn this into a ditto competition?

I got fully into Komplete with 12. Grabbed it next to Maschine. Then I upgraded it. And again. And finally I also moved to 13. Fun fact: upgrading from Komplete to Ultimate or Ultimate Collectors doesn't cost you one cent extra. In other words: buying Komplete, then the Ultimate upgrade followed by the UC upgrade will normally cost you the same amount as if you bought UC directly. Of course smart people wait for discount periods.

... I also did this with Live back in the days... going from Lite to Standard to Suite. In hindsight I actually wasted money there...

So the thing is... after I had Komplete 13 (and the full iZotope suite, and a Komplete Audio 6, and my Maschine of course!). Oh.. and the SoundIron vocal suite, and of course an U-HE bundle and I also need to mention Output's essential engines. The latter is a bit of a love/hate for me but I cannot deny the high quality of their instruments. Oh, right, I also seem to recall having bought Pigments from this very place!

Ahem, where was I? 🤔

Oh, right! => I'd be lying if I said that Komplete 14 didn't tempt me. I'm still on 13, I'm still having fun and getting work done. I decided to focus inwards for a change: dig into my library and all the awesome goodies I have vs. expanding even more.

And "the powers that be" still treat me seriously. Few weeks/months ago I decided to write a "Getting started with Komplete" guide, despite knowing fully well that 14 is "hot and modern" whereas I'm on bad luck. 😁 Still got some positive and awesome feedback. More important to me: the same "powers that be" still saw value in my guide as well.

See, that's my problem with your rant here... if I had to believe all of your nonsense they'd be trying to push me into Komplete 14 but... nope!

🤣

If you're a professional, stick with what you know and stay away from NI products!

Only tools blame their tools.

Anyway, that was a good laugh, I suppose thank you for that?

LostInFoundation

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/68991#Comment_68991

And…again out of curiosity…

“There's no duality, I rarely use Maschine because to me it's stuck in mud and didn't evolve much in the past 8 years, that + ignoring users requests for the same amount of time means I'm out, I'll never buy another Maschine product unless this changes” (sorry I can’t use the cit function on iPad)

Don’t you think that users showing to NI what is good and what not could help getting Maschine out of the mud? (I know…I think too that “listening” is not their strength…but the more people tell them things, the more maybe they will notice what users need to not abandon them)

D-One

@LostInFoundation asked:

I don't want to overtake this thread by talking too much or ranting, so just one more reply.

No, unfortunately, I don't... But I still think people should be vocal as there's nothing else they can do.

People have been massively complaining for years and nothing changed, there were thousands of threads on the old forum and also thousands of feature requests. There have been employees with great intentions, usually people who are recently hired but for some reason, they all failed. People who make decisions don't hang around here, it's just the users, the Mods, and Admins so we (the users) just end up discussing things amongst ourselves, higher ups won't spend their day reading our opinions... They spend it on 50 Zoom calls a day.

Here's an example for ya: The majority of the userbase received sounds.com integration with rage, god knows how long they worked on that instead of something users actually asked for, and now sounds.com MAS integration died, I am willing to bet whoever made that terrible call since then got promoted to a higher position... lol. This a common problem in big companies.

"wheres is 3.0" was basically a meme for years, commented everywhere, but even that died down as most users just gave up on asking imo, from my pov this says a lot.

LostInFoundation

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/68995#Comment_68995

Aaaand…there it is…enough to call them out, and here comes one of the NI lawyers…

And one of the best kind: the lawyer just insulting and laughing at the complainer…

If you don’t agree with his “nonsense” an “mindless rant”, you can just skip the reading. No need to come here just to laugh at him, not bringing anything useful to the table.

But wait…your post is soooo long that there must be some place where you are not just insulting, denigrating, or trying to humiliate him…

Oh…No…I was wrong…there is not…

(I would change your profile image if I were you: clearly you didn’t learn anything from Neon Genesis Evangelion, an anime written by an Hikikomori about how it does feel to not be understood…)

Maciej Repetowski

Nothing is ever forever 🤣

The belief that software bought once will be updated forever is misplaced and naive. The belief that any company will develop their software in a way users want it is wishful thinking.

When I went back to making music, after the hiatus of several years, I’ve bought KK keyboard, Komplete 9 (I think) and Maschine software and that was great. I was using Maschine as a DAW. But the Maschine development stalled and I decided to move on. I’ve sold the keyboard and started using Logic as a DAW. Maschine plug-in and Expansions are my drums, I also use Kontakt, Massive, etc.

if Maschine software is not developed anymore, I’ll find something to replace it with. Simple - don’t put all eggs into one basket.

I still have a box and CD with NI Vokator somewhere at the attic, should I cry over that?

You just have to learn to move on, software is NOT an investment, it is an expense.

LostInFoundation

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/69007#Comment_69007

My last answer too: Totally agree with everything you said. And remember all, since I’m with NI from day one too.

But I still don’t want to give up 😉

basehead617

One of the things that music technology especially ITB stuff vs analog is really bad at, is allowing you to pull up a project from years ago and work on it again.. (old DAW versions, conversion errors, VSTs no longer working or even able to be registered e.g. powercore, etc.) I agree.. but that is hardly an NI-specific issue.

I think the expansions are one of the best things NI do, not the worst.

The main issue is very poor software support for Maschine, but it's a mature platform that is very useful as-is and the hardware is the best in the biz to me.

lord-carlos

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/69010#Comment_69010

If you don’t agree with his “nonsense” an “mindless rant”, you can just skip the reading

You could do the same.

LostInFoundation

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/69024#Comment_69024

Yes, I could. If I just came in a thread just to humiliate the OP

ShelLuser

Aaaand…there it is…enough to call them out, and here comes one of the NI lawyers…

And one of the best kind: the lawyer just insulting and laughing at the complainer…

Where exactly did I insult them? Unlike yourself I never made things personal, I definitely think the OP was trolling and yes: I had fun with their post because of all the inconsitencies and lack of arguments. It's now an insult to call someone out on their behavior? Interesting.

If you don’t agree with his “nonsense” an “mindless rant”, you can just skip the reading. No need to come here just to laugh at him, not bringing anything useful to the table.

So, the same thing can be said about you.

Always interesting how some complainers are usually the first to dismiss anyone that speaks up with an opinion that doesn't match their own. It's either their way or the highway.

How dare I vent my opinion, and to add insult to injury: also add arguments to back up my claims too! 😫

darkwaves

These threads are so funny.

LostInFoundation

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/69028#Comment_69028

”people are dumb”
“Ignorance is bliss these days”
“your mindless rant”
“You should lay of the beer I think” (implicating he is just a drunkard)
“I seriously doubt if you even understand what this actually means”
“you're barking”
”you have no idea what you're talking about”
“your own ignorance”
“you're only displaying a massive amount of ignorance here.”
“your arguments are piss poor”
“Only tools blame their tools.”

But I do understand all of this for you is not insulting someone.

So I’ll remain on the “humiliating” and “denigrating” aspect.

Good job 👍🏼

Then I’m the one who “dismiss anyone that speaks up with an opinion that doesn't match their own”…

But ok…I won’t bother you anymore…

tetsuneko

I disagree with the OP. My experience with Native Instruments is quite different to his.

All my years using NI products, I only bought the key pieces of software I was interested in. Traktor, Kontakt, Reaktor. While I received several offers for upgrading to Komplete, I saw, and still don't see, any point in upgrading, as the three pieces of software I had aquired contained the best parts of NI, at least for my personal needs, and I felt that within those three applications, I already had a lifetime's worth of sonic exploration ahead of me.

I am still using those 3 programs, and when Maschine+ was announced, I bought one and that ended up adding Maschine, FM8 and Massive to my NI software toolkit. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to go beyond what I can already do with what I have from them. (Other companies out there who also want my money, giving me the things NI does not/cannot)

Did I end up paying "upgrade tax"? I have. But that is nothing different compared to other software platforms I use, Photoshop, Ableton, ProTools and so on.. I'd say it is actually quite rare that a piece of software will keep working for decades, across several CPU and computer OS generations, never requiring any paid upgrades during those transitions. IT people especially realize this — Sometimes, entire computer systems remain "time capsuled" dedicated just to run a particular version of a software, because it is the only way to keep that specific version of that software operational. And in some extreme cases, computer hardware lives on as virtualized disc images running inside an emulator, offering access to software from even the earliest days of computing..

Could things be better? Absolutely. I hear people have been requesting a lot of features for Maschine, which remain unaddressed to this day. But in my personal experience, every piece of NI software I have paid for works, and still does everything it did when I got it. Now, I admit researching heavily into things before buying and not expecting things from software it doesn't do when it's released — I do this for selfish reasons, because I hate being disappointed.

OP is of course welcome to feel as he is. I am simply posting my experiences in order to offer my perspective to the discussion.

NativeAmerican

I am totally new to NI and I found this thread very interesting and enlightening. I would say that there was no need to make it a personal attack on the original person who started the post. I would say he has a great point about losing functionality on his device.

If you bought a Maschine Plus and in a few years they remove functionality, I am sure you would be upset also. The concept of losing functionality is not progress in any forum. Just like when XBOX tried to move generations and leave all of the games behind forcing many into buying new copies of the games that were left behind so to speak. Later they made backwards compatibility to use 360 games on the One and now on the newest generation.

My issue with that is simple, newer technology should run older software easily. Technology should not be regressive and unable to perform duties older devices can.

If the device could process analog and can no longer do that, that is an issue.

My personal experience with the software is that I barely use it yet. I got lucky enough with buying used devices and software, even though I bought too many Maschine devices. I own Two Machine MKI's, two Maschine Mikro MKII's(black edition and white edition) and one Maschine Mikro MKIII. Almost forgot, I have one Maschine MKII on the way.

My college is starting an electronic music course this year and I may donate one to them if they don't have one. The class is probably all on computers though, but we will see.

I do plan on making music soon, I just have been busy with school this year so far. Too bad Metapop is no longer going to be around, I found that to be really awesome.

ShelLuser

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/69033#Comment_69033

People are dumb.

I never said that, what I did say was:

I think you've just proven my point about #2. It's not my problem that you apparently felt addressed by my post and thus took it personally.

"Mindless rant" => Yes, if you spew out a ton of accusations without any substantial argument to back up your claims... what's left?

"Lay off the beer" => You got me on that one 🍻

"I seriously doubt if you actually understand what this means" => So now I'm not allowed to share my opinion again?

"You're barking" => Once again you put words in my mouth because you merely see what you wanted to see:

So yah... you're barking up the wrong tree here. Making me convinced that you have no idea what you're talking about and are probably only trolling.

"Barking up the wrong tree" is a perfectly valid and generally accepted saying. I suppose not when you suddenly feel addressed yourself. Also important: I provided arguments why I came to this conclusion: OP is putting the blame on NI for something that Steinberg dictates. So yah, he IS barking up the wrong tree, because any complaints about VST's should be directed towards Steinberg.

Convenient how you chose to ignore all my arguments that lead up to this.

"You have no idea what you're talking about" => Once again: OP shared accusations, I shared arguments which everyone can verify for themselves and see that they're true. I even pointed to a Wikipedia article which itself points to all the relevant external info. If you blame NI for something Steinberg enforced then yes: you're clueless about the topic at hand.

"Your own ignorance" => You yourself are showcasing plenty of that right now too.

And I will leave it at that because the rest all boils down to the same thing I already addressed.

There's a huge difference between actually getting insulted or feeling to be insulted. All I did was attack OP's criticism and comments. Yet unlike yourself I never felt the need to make things personal, I called them out on their behavior and their comments, I never even came close to name calling. Unlike you of course.

Believe it or not but I can agree to disagree. Seems like a good idea right now.

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