Is there a general bug with Maschine 2.17.2 standalone where it hangs and stutters?

Warren Postma · 2023-05-05T05:40:07+00:00

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I am a new MK3 owner, had my unit less than 3 weeks. The honeymoon is over.

I am aware of the general problems with realtime audio performance but this is a very specific issue that looks like latency or thermal throttling but IS NOT.

I have FIVE PCs/Laptops, two are macs, three are windows machines. ALL FIVE of them run every other DAW I own without pops clicks and stutters. I run Bitwig, Cubase, Garage Band, Studio One, Ableton Live, Traktion, and many others on here without a problem.

And MASCHINE works fine as a VST on all my machines.

But put MASCHINE standalone app on any of them and after setting up the audio driver settings (there are more configurable settings on Windows than on mac, and it takes some time to figure out what the worst case DPC latencies on Windows are) it seems to work for a while, and then for no reason just stops working. The tiny little CPU meter on the top bar of MASCHINE indicates things have become stalled or overloaded, and everything stutters, until I restart maschine then the issue is gone. It is not a matter of too many devices or tracks. Even some very basic demo projects that are included in some of the maschine expansions that have NO external plugins at all, and are only using three or four groups full of samplers are affected.

I have done all the dances we do, with Latency Mon on windows, and Throttle Stop. It's not a CPU power state or CPU thermal throttling issue. It's not a DPC latency issue. DPC latency isn't even a possible issue on Macs and yet it happens on both platforms.

These issues DO NOT OCCUR when it runs inside as a plugin. I am down to two explanations.

There is a general problem with MASCHINE standalone app.
There is a general problem with the MASCHINE MK3 audio interface or its drivers. (Operating system level problem).

But I am still mystified, because if it was a bug in the asio driver on windows or the mac audio drivers on mac, it should be a bug when using other DAWs with the MK3 audio interface, but it seems the unique combination of MASCHINE software as the audio HOST application and the MK3 as the audio interface is causing me problems on ALL my computers.

So far the computers that ALL have this problem:

Dell Xeon Workstation class PC, running windows 10, with 256 gb RAM and 2013 era quad core XEON Cpus.
Dell XPS 9570 Mobile Core i7 cpu laptop from circa 2018. 32 gb ram.
MacBook Pro (2011) Intel CPU 16 gb RAM
Mac Studio (2022) with Apple M1 Ultra CPU and 16 gb ram.
Lenovo Thinkpad Core i7 from 2017 16 gb ram.

I admit I am frustrated at running five different PCs with Maschine and seeing that it's the hardest "DAW" like application to get running and working that I have ever experienced.

Again all these machines have this problem ONLY WITH MASCHINE, not with Cubase or Bitwig or anything else. If it was an installation issue surely Native Access would install things properly once out of four machines? If it was a bug in MASCHINE which affects ALL audio drivers, surely it would reproduce for me when I stop using the MK3 as the audio interface.

It's frustrating to me that the one thing I want most (use standalone app, use the mk3 as the controller, use the mk3 as the audio interface) and that it seems DESIGNED for is the one thing that, thanks to the third law of thermodynamics, is out of reach.

I would like to be able to go back to some earlier maschine versions (2.14, 2.15) and try those to see if there's been a regression in maschine, causing this issue.

The MK3 is running the latest 1.4.5 firmware, so firmware update is not gonna be the solution. If a firmware DOWNGRADE is possible and that solved it I would love to be able to try older firmwares and see if it gets more solid as an audio interface.

When I use a different audio interface and only use the maschine mk3 as a midi controller for the maschine software, it does not audio stutter, but instead loses connectivity to the maschine app at times and basically requires an unplug and replug in of the controller for maschine to start talking to it again. I am also wondering if it's possible I have a bad unit?

Should I return it? RMA with NI?

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Murat Kayi

I have the same problem. I had an NI support staff member on the phone checking my latencymon and nisupport tool logs. We did the whole dance. Clicks won't stop.

On a Mac everything is fine.

So, it's not the hardware. It seems to me the windows driver for the audio interface is just garbage. There is one setting I couldn't even change from the hardware even though I should be able to - baffled the staff member on the phone, too.

I just gave up on the audio interface and got an RME interface.

Actually, if you want to be able to make use of the cue functionality to pre-check what you are doing live/realtime the Maschine audio interface is useless, anyway

Warren Postma

Interesting because I get stutters on my macs too.

but not when I do not use the mk3 audio interface.

it could be a firmware issue or a hardware usb DSP issue in the mk3 audio hardware…

I can not see how anyone could use this live as it’s infuriating even in studio.

ozon

@Warren Postma wrote:

When I use a different audio interface and only use the maschine mk3 as a midi controller for the maschine software, it does not audio stutter, but instead loses connectivity to the maschine app at times and basically requires an unplug and replug in of the controller for maschine to start talking to it again.

Sounds like USB problems to me. If your Mk3 is not connected directly to the computer, what type of USB hub are you using? What other hardware is connected on the same USB bus? What USB cable are you using?

Warren Postma

It's connected directly. And if it was a usb hub or usb issue, it would reproduce when using other DAWS.

Again because this is so bizarre; The only app that loses track of or stops talking to the MK3 is Maschine as a standalone app.

Maschine from inside A DAW is FINE.

ozon

If this was a problem of the Maschine software regardless of the hardware and operating system it runs on, nobody would be able to use the Mk3 properly.

Since this happens for you on five different systems, running various operating systems (for which you unfortunately didn’t provide the versions), this is a rather unique problem which must be either related to some sort of Mk3 (USB) hardware/firmware issue, or to some third party software (plugins) which is installed on all of your systems.

I suggest you contact NI support.

Warren Postma

I am thinking if one or two people out of 5000 have this issue, it probably IS hardware.

(MK3 itself)

ozon

Any chance you can borrow or rent another Mk3 to verify the issue?

D-One

Quite the mystery. There is no DSP in the MK3, it's just a 'dumb' controller, this is so odd that I am leaning towards a HW problem or some kind of incompatibility with some software/driver you might have installed in all your computers?

Def get in touch with support for a possible RMA.

Jeremy_NI

@Warren Postma When I read this "When I use a different audio interface and only use the maschine mk3 as a midi controller for the maschine software, it does not audio stutter, but instead loses connectivity to the maschine app at times and basically requires an unplug and replug in of the controller for maschine to start talking to it again. I am also wondering if it's possible I have a bad unit?"

plus the fact that you encounter issues when using the MK3 as a soundcard would indicate an issue with the hardware. I might have missed that info in your description but did you try different USB cables?

If you have and this is not a USB cable issue, then get in touch with our hardware department, mentioning you have the same issue on 5 different computers, here is a direct link to the typeform: https://bit.ly/NISupport_Hardware

Warren Postma

My issues have now gotten worse. Now the controller is not registering button presses.

6xes

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/71430#Comment_71430

i couldnt help but notice... there was no mention in your OP of you having checked your sample rates and checking that they are matched.... as this can and will prevent maschine software from operating and in some cases cause glitching stutters etc..

again check your sample rates are matched with your maschine software & your audio interface!!

this is always the first thing i check when i have problems....

the second aspect i check in Windows is sound control and checking that the sample rate in the properties/advanced tab is also matched to maschine, as shown in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab0XxYD3VJo

Warren Postma

That's a very good basic check. I've long gone past all the basic checks. This is happening on several different computers, and with several different audio interfaces.

6xes

just out of curiousity,

are the version numbers of the VST and the standalone exactly the same??

this does not cause a conflict... however if the versions are different, then it might imply a bug in the update possibly?

lastly you can possibly download a previous version

Wallirec

I have Maschine Mikro Mk3, when I play through the WASAPI driver everything is fine, but if I use asio - constant clicks (on any buffer and project load). I found a way out - I run machines 2 in the REAPER (which is not at all convenient) - on the smallest buffer, no clicks. Tried with Motu M2 and Audient id 14 mk2

Warren Postma

Motu M2 and Audient interfaces SHOULD work fine with their native ASIO drivers, though, no?

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