Maschine +/Software integration mess

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troxx
troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
edited December 2022 in Maschine

So i'm getting a little frustrated with the Maschine integration here, i'm reading on some support posts that SD Card and USB drives in Machine+ need to be exfat to be read on the device, however when using the Maschine 2 software using an external drive formatted to exFat with all my samples on, the drive is not showing as available on the workspace under user files, I only have 3 options available, 'Untitled, desktop, tyler' no external drive is showing up, even though the drive shows up on my mac desktop as an external drive named samples.

I've since read that Maschine software does not support exfat and the drive should be formatted to a mac readable format, but I use both Windows and mac systems, so do not want to do that.

What is going on here, why does NI advise to use exfat on Maschine+, yet not support it in the actual Maschine software?

If I add the external drive under preferences/user/, the samples show up in Library, however it's all a jumbled mess, with no structure, not all my Zero G sample libraries show up, none of the vengeance libraries show up and most other do not show up either (most probably due to no tagging)

The whole tagging of samples is frustrating the hell out of me too, purchased the auto tagging software a member created, exported some tagged samples, with the only option to export to the mac desktop, so then I have to manually copy these back over to the external hdd, tried opening the folder on the auto tag software to check tags were in place, none of the exported samples tags existed, plus files appear duplicated in the application with a ._ added to the filename.

Not having a fun time with Maschine at all, it comes across as very convoluted at the minute, all I want to do is plug a drive in with my samples in the folder structure I have setup and be able to browse to those folders when I want a sample, I have never used anything as frustrating.

Apologies for the rant, but this is becoming a hot mess and i'm close to just jacking it in and turning to something else, this is not a workflow I want to really carry on with.

Anyone have any idea about what is going on here? 😫

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Answers

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
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    So just formatted a USB stick to mac os extended and Maschine software now showing this under Files->workspace as an available location, so its definitely an issue with the exfat format.

    So I have to have 2 different drives formatted to different file systems, with the same samples stored on them just to use in M+ and the Maschine Software?

  • Rico010
    Rico010 Member Posts: 103 Advisor
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    Sounds worrying. Did not know this

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
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    I've spent more time messing with trying to get my sample libraries to appear on Maschine & tagging, than actually doing anything music related with it, its tragic 😥

    I just want to get on with learning to use this beast and not come up against these workflow barriers

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 348 Guru
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    I've since read that Maschine software does not support exfat

    That bit is strange. Is this a mac thing or something? It wouldn't make sense for the software to care about how you format a disk since the OS handles that. The software just sees what's provided by the OS. I can browse my SD card from the software (windows 10 computer).

    Is this the "full disk access" stuff I keep seeing mac people talk about?

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,948 mod
    edited December 2022
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    Maschine never liked ExFat on Mac for some reason... I tagged it as a bug in 2018 and here we are almost in 2023.

    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/maschine-and-exfat-hd-flash-drive.326395/

    Basically the "FILES" Menu specifically cant read/display any ExFat drives... And still, they oddly chose it as the file format the M+ SD. Adding an ExFat drive to the lib works fine as well as drag-and-drop, export, etc... so MAS can indeed read/write to it, it just doesn't show up under Browser>Files. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

    Anyway, I found a workaround: Use a symlink, (it's like a shortcut/alias). It's easy to do:

    Put the M+ in Storage Mode or your SD in the computer then open the terminal and type this:

    ln -s /Volumes/Maschine+ 
    

    It will create a symlink pointing to the SD Drive in your User folder (HD>Users>Your-Name)

    Then in Maschine sw FILE browser navigate to the alias location and add it as a favorite, it will then show up in the FILE browser and work fine, afaik.

    Also, if you have a ton of 3rd Party content (Packs and such) I would advise you to manage them in the computer then copy it over to the SD/M+, tagging is annoying but with strategies like the text search fields and adding each pack at a time you can mitigate it and have things organized on the M+.

    @darkwaves : Is this the "full disk access" stuff I keep seeing mac people talk about?

    No. It's a Maschine has a bug they never fixed thing.

    Full disk access is a permission you can grant trusted apps, a similar windows thing might be "run as Admin", except in Mac we set it once and forget it.

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
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    As D-One says, it's a bug, I tried giving Maschine 2 software full access and it still didn't read the exfat drive.

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
    edited December 2022
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    Cheers for the tutorial @D-One, I've calmed slightly since rage posting 😆

    However, i'm still bewildered by NI's implementation here, I mean why would you release a standalone system which integrates heavily with the software, then cripple the software whereby it does not read the file system of drives which can only be read by the hardware? This just does not make sense? The two are supposed to work in harmony.

    The way it currently stands I have to have 2 drives on different file formats, one in order to use to use sample libraries on Maschine software and I have had to purchase another to use separately with M+

    I can now see my ssd in the Maschine software and browse to my sample libraries/packs, however due to the current folder restrictions on the M+, I am now going to have to look at tagging all these multiple thousands of samples on the exfat usb drive i've purchased, just to be able to browse my sample packs, this is utter madness!

    Why cant NI just enable to the 'Files' option like on the Maschine software, this would allow users to be able to browse to their sample packs without the whole tagging debacle, it's just completely inconvenient and total creative buzz kill, to expect users to have to do this to thousands of their personal samples, just to be able to browse to them in M+

    I'm going to sound abit dramatic, but it's seriously making me not want use M+ in standalone because of the thought of tagging all these sample packs I want use in M+, I might as well have saved myself a ton of money and stuck with the MK3.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,948 mod
    edited December 2022
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    However, i'm still bewildered by NI's implementation here

    Welcome to the club, enjoy your stay. 😭


    I mean why would you release a standalone system but which integrates heavily with the software, then cripple the software whereby it does not read the file system of drives which can only be read by the hardware? This just does not make sense? The two are supposed to work in harmony.

    They prob don't even remember MAS for mac can't read ExFat in the FILE browser, I seriously doubt the person in charge of the M+ development around the release time had ever used MAS before tbh... I bumped my 4-year-old bug report on the beta and mentioned this M+ SD absurdity. Don't hold your breath on that changing anything tho.


    Why cant NI just enable to the 'Files' option like on the Maschine software, this would allow users to be able to browse to their sample packs without the whole tagging debacle, it's just completely inconvenient and total creative buzz kill, to expect users to have to do this to thousands of their personal samples, just to be able to browse to them in M+

    Not even the MK3 could do that. This is the kind of thing that only a tiny amount of users complain about, I reckon it's because the vast majority just use the Library and Expansion content, aka Maschine as a Preset box. NI hasn't really adapted to the world of Sample packs, I mean look at sounds.com and how bad it failed, they are great at some things but are really completely out of touch in others. The most cynical say it's on purpose to sell more Expansions.

    I always noticed how the majority of people I see using Maschine SW online (youtube) that have a lot of custom content tend to always use the FILE Browser and completely ignore the regular one with tags and such.. On the M+ your only way is really to go in and Tag everything or you could also merge all your packs into one massive folder with subfolders such as Kick, Snare, etc... I have a Script for that. Or you can paypal me 50$ and I'll manually tag all your custom content 🤣 🤣

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
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    I might hold ya to that if I get sick of tagging samples! 😂

    I can really see me just using the M+ the same way as others (Maschine preset box) if they don't enable the 'FILES' menu, as I simply can't see me tagging everything on my drive just to use on M+, it's simply not feasible or convenient to have to do this, when I already have the samples in a folder structure I can browse to on other devices I use.

    I might just end up selling the M+ on & buy an MK3 as I can do what I want to do via just the Maschine software itself... the MPC live, Force & Deluge browses samples on external drives no bother, have slight sellers remorse now, the Deluge just worked in comparison.

  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
    edited December 2022
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    I always noticed how the majority of people I see using Maschine SW online (youtube) that have a lot of custom content tend to always use the FILE Browser and completely ignore the regular one with tags and such.. 

    Thats because nobody in their right mind is going to manually tag 10's of thousands of their own samples, when they can simply browse their folders easily through that 'FILES' menu via the software, this is what is needed on the M+, why cant they just implement that freaking 'FILES' menu? it would solve this samples headache.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,948 mod
    edited December 2022
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    why cant they just implement that freaking 'FILES' menu? it would solve this samples headache.

    You gotta ask them, while you're at it there are loads of things I wanna ask too... Call me Sway, because I ain't got the answers to these questions. 😂


  • troxx
    troxx Member Posts: 33 Member
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    So even though I purchased the Auto tagging software, I still found that the software didn't identify many sample types, so was still going to have to go through the entire sample library and manually tag all the samples, so that was a waste of $20.

    The quickest method for me in the end was to just rearrange the folder structure of the external usb drive, then add the Root folder as an individual Library on the Machine+ to browse of the samples at the most basic level:

    • Root folder - Genre (e.d DnB, Soundtrack, Breakbeat)
      • 2nd Folder - Sample Pack (e.g Samplephonics Augmented DnB)
        • 3rd Folder - Sample Pack Content (e.g. Kicks, Hats, Perc, Snares, Drum loops, Melodic loops, Synth stabs etc..)

    Although not the most organised like you would be able to browse via the Maschine software, this was still going to be easier than to manually tag every sample.

  • drewhjava
    drewhjava Member Posts: 32 Helper
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    Hey, @troxx feel free to contact me on Gumroad about categories and other things that are missing from Auto tagger. I'm collecting feedback for the next version. I'd really appreciate it!

  • Trevor Meier
    Trevor Meier Member Posts: 69 Advisor
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    What a crime… it makes me so sad that NI appears to spend so much on its marketing machine (great videos and website etc etc) and so little on continuing the legacy of the great software they started with.

    I know the NI people that are here are trying their best, but seriously… so many bugs, so few new features, paid-up users waiting *many years* for fixes and features that never come. They had gold in their hands and just tossed it IMO

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