Why does paste now paste items one grid block later than it used to

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S Righteous
S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
edited September 2022 in Maschine

First off, I do read the manual - honestly !

For some reason, I've set a mode, or done something unknowingly and when I copy paste beats in a pattern - from one pad to another, they always paste one grid block later than they should. If I'm copying a hi-hat pattern, this also forces the pattern to get longer by one bar just to accommodate that single hit that falls over the bar.

It didn't used to do this, I would copy paste from one pad to another all the time, and the pasted content was lined up just like the original. I don't do anything differently than I ever did. So what setting went fubar?

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  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 673 Pro
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    Are any of your midi controllers mapped to CC values that would cause the shift?

    for instance i use bomes midi translator and have mapped controllers to do things that wouldnt normally occur within Maschine... and any duplicate mapping can cause similar effects

    *shrugs

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,371 Expert
    edited September 2022
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    Where is the timeline when you copy the Events, and where is it when you paste them.

    Sounds silly, but it makes a difference. The position of the timeline is used as relative zero for the Events.

    And there’s even more to that: If the first copied Event is not exactly on the Grid, that offset is kept when you paste the events for the first time but is omitted in subsequent paste operations. The reasoning behind that behavior is truly mysterious!

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Hmm, when I hit stop twice, or ****** stop, there is nothing that resets the timeline/playhead as I would expect. So if the playhead position affects pasting (as I believe you are saying?) then how do we control that if we can't reset the playhead to a reliable position like 0:0:0 ?

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Hmm, when I hit stop twice, or shift stop, there is nothing that resets the timeline/playhead as I would expect. So if the playhead position affects pasting (as I believe you are saying?) then how do we control that if we can't reset the playhead to a reliable position like 0:0:0 ?

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,371 Expert
    edited September 2022
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    Shift + 4D Controller scrolls the Timeline in steps of the Arrange Grid.

    Took me a while to understand that, but once you’re used to it, it’s quite handy and can be used to control the paste possition exactly.

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Thanks ! this is what I was missing.

    Other gear = hit stop twice returns to zero.

    NI = we gotta make use of that 4D knob. . .

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    So in Pattern mode, or Events mode, with no events selected, Shift + 4D encoder moves the events in my pattern. Entirely sure they are not selected - also no different in step or any other mode.

    Why are there so many sub-sub-sub modes in Maschine !

    So we can't as a rule say that "Shift + 4D encoder scrolls the timeline" because I've tried this in a few modes, and it certainly did not. That rule must only work in some specific circumstance, which eludes me, and it's really hard for me to just copy paste beats around. I work entirely on the hardware (unfortunately it seems).

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    I thought the issue was that my Maschine went bonkers at 65% CPU.

    As I continued to try to get beats done, it started doing really bad stuff, like when I selected pattern mode, it erased all my patterns. Then I went to Scene mode to see what it showed, and then it wiped all my scenes.

    Reboot - reload - good thing I had just saved.

    But nope, in every mode Shift + 4D will move my beat events whether they are selected or not.

    Is there yet another hidden mode I am in, which makes the 4D knob not do what it is supposed to do?

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,371 Expert
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    What Maschine hardware are you using? For Pattern creation, I work mainly on the M+ in standalone mode.

    Oh, and when I say Shift + 4D, I talk about turning the 4D knob and not using the toggling function (which AFAIR moves Events).

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Wow, I feel idiotic for not trying that.

    I was too wrapped up in the process of arranging, and making tracks.

    When I have to use the 4D for toggling through the mixer, it makes me paranoid that I am going to accidentally turn it a little and adjust the levels on something I don't want to. I really wish the arrow buttons were always used for toggling and the knob was just a knob, like possibly a 3D knob😁

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Just a note - in my case I also had to go into Shift + Grid and set the Arrange grid to 1/4. It was set to 1 bar, and I could not move the playhead around in my short 1 bar hi-hat patterns.

    Thank you once again Ozon!

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,371 Expert
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    Great that it works now for you!

    As you found out the Olayhead (as it is called in the manual) is positioned according to the Arrangement Grid setting. I corrected my post above to reflect that.

    Is the Copy/Paste behavior now more consistent for you?

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    Yeah, this thread has been really helpful for me. I can line up the paste destination now, but I often have to re-set the Grid mode for the playhead. Sometimes I'm pasting a quarter bar of 64th notes, and the first event is not on the one.

    I am still struggling to mix different quantize settings in the same pattern. I often play something manually with pads, and have triplets mixed with non-triplets, (reggae hi-hats for instance). But it's just too difficult to take a small chunk of events and quantize them effectively, so I end up keeping my performance if it sounds close enough. I use Step mode a lot, and then set the quantize to something ridiculous like 128th notes and move my performance to the nearest grid in Step Mode trying to figure out what the perfect quantize would be.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,371 Expert
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    @S Righteous wrote:

    I often have to re-set the Grid mode for the playhead. Sometimes I'm pasting a quarter bar of 64th notes, and the first event is not on the one.

    What I do often in that situation:

    1. Select Events to copy
    2. Move Playhead to the nearest quarter (or bar) position before the Events
    3. Copy
    4. Navigate to destination Pattern / Location
    5. Move Playhead to the nearest position before the destination position for the Events
    6. Paste

    Now the Events are pasted relative to the Playhead. But only for the first Paste operation. Subsequent paste operations, or if you move the Playhead again, result in the pasting the Events exactly at the Playhead.

    It reads more confusing than it actually is when you execute the procedure. After a while it feels pretty natural.

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 148 Helper
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    I'm just returning to this old thread.

    I had a group with sequences I wanted to keep, but move to another group with better samples I wanted to use. Copying patterns is a real pain - you have to go into events to select all, but also you have to not only remember to move the playhead to the beginning of the pattern, but which row was highlighted.

    So I coped patterns only to realize they were often off if there wasn't a sample from pad 1 being used - the events were all shifted. This isn't something you can fix with semi-tone + because that is for the notes within a single pad, and there is no 'shift' to move events to a different row that I can find.

    You should be able to just select a pattern and copy it to any other group and have it remember which pads had events in that pattern - but I cannot find a way to do this simple thing.

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