The confusing state of modulation

psifidelicat · 2022-01-26T16:38:28+00:00

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Modulation, also confusingly called AUTO/Automation - even though it is not Automation, as many have pointed out - basically the automated changes of parameter you can record with the AUTO button, is a mess to manage, IMO.

As far as I can gather from the Maschine Manual and from user experience, modulation is stored within the pattern. So far that makes sense.

However one of the biggest pitfalls is that when using the ERASE+Encoder shortcut to erase Modulation of a single parameter it apparantly straight away removes it from all the patterns. Thats definitely not what I would expect in a typical workflow and has confused me many times in the past when I didn't understand why my carefully recorded modulations had disappeared from patterns that I hadn't even touched.

There is certainly room for improvement in the area of modluations in general, however I acknolegde that this functionality is particularily challanging to do in a way that is both intutive and enabling to creative expression.

But destroying recorded modulation in other patterns without warning, when the obvious expecation should be editing on the selected pattern only, seems lika a no brainer, and an easy fix to improve user experience.

Or am I the only one annoyed by this?

I really love Maschine for how close it gets to an all-in-on hands on feeling. But small unneccessary flaws that make one feel like progress will randomly get destroyed hurt the overal experience 😉

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Comments

D-One

Yeap, you got that right. It's not what anyone would expect but that's how it has always has been, unfortunately.

Or am I the only one annoyed by this?

No, you're not, welcome to the club.

I work around it by selecting the modulation with the mouse then delete it but if you have a Maschine+ then you're out of luck. I guess you could also just re-record more modulation over what you have to try and put the knob into the default position but the device will show you a relative percentage when recording instead of the actual Parameter value so unless you want 0% or 100% this won't work. 🤷‍♂️

Akira-76

You are not alone.

Automation edition is just not suitable, and when I read comment about it since years, I don't understand how people can find it suitable until today. Except for those who don't use this functionality, I don't understand.

ozon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2666#Comment_2666

Yeap, you got that right. It's not what anyone would expect but that's how it has always has been, unfortunately.

Oh… and I thought I had just done something wrong while erasing a messed up modulation of a single parameter for a pattern I was working on 😞

How can this be a feature?

Gotta check the manual…

ozon

M+ Manual Page 142:

Erasing Automation

If you want to discard the modulation you recorded and try again:

▶ Hold ERASE and again turn the Knob you used to record modulation to delete all modulation events for this parameter.

You can also delete all modulation events for all parameters of the channel:

▶ Press SHIFT + Pad 10 (Clear Auto) to delete all modulation for all parameters of the focused Sound or Group.

It does indeed say all modulation, but the context is Recording Modulation which establishes Pattern as context:

Your modulation is now recorded. Each Knob movement is stored in your Pattern as a modulation event. It will be automatically played with your Pattern upon its next cycle.

I’d never expect that ERASE would literally delete all modulation events from all Patterns. That’s pure insanity. I can’t even imagine any use case for that behavior.

@Matt_NI or @Jeremy NI please file this as bug.

psifidelicat

also noteworthy:

▶ Press SHIFT + Pad 10 (Clear Auto) does correctly only affect the active pattern.

Only the ERASE+Knob Switch seems to go rogue.

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2727#Comment_2727

Let me get more information on that topic, I'll get back to you.

D-One

BTW there are threads about this topic dating back to at least 2015 in the old forum, it's nothing new so it's not a bug it's just sort of dumb-by-design. 😂

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2732#Comment_2732

That can work but only if you're modulating a single Parameter because it resets ALL Modulation Lanes, so it won't fix the Erase+Knob problem.

psifidelicat

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2864#Comment_2864

Thanks for pointing that out.

I didn't mean to imply that SHIFT + Pad 10 (Clear Auto) is a viable workaround, just that the behavior is obviously inconsistent.

From a developers standpoint I can't see any reason why this couldn't be resolved. When I turn the knob while holding AUTO the software "knows" which pattern it is recording to - so when I turn the knob while holding ERASE it should just be able to "know" the active pattern just the same way.

Optimistically I would assume that for a developer that is familiar with the code base it would take no more than 1 man-hour to rectify an issue that has been plaguing users for more than half a decade 😉

Regardless of what the issue is labeled (bug/dumb) I believe it is a sort of low hanging fruit for significant improvement and it would be great to have it resolved.

olafmol

This is the key to the problem: “a developer that is familiar with the code base”

if this issue has been floating around for 10+ years, it’s clear that either something is VERY messed up with the codebase, and/or the original developers have all left the building without any documentation at all.

D-One

Old codebase issues are generally related to more complicated things like Hi-Res GUI support. For smaller stuff like this, it's a matter of priority I think. This sort of stuff has very low engagement by users which doesn't help either...

I'd prefer if the easy-to-implement and quality of life improvements were the focus for a while but most users seem to ask for major (complicated) features.

psifidelicat

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2833#Comment_2833

Were you able to gather some insight on the state of this matter?

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/5054#Comment_5054

Nothing tangible yet, sorry.

psifidelicat

Running into this issue again and again, I'm gonna have one more shot at necroing this old thread in the vain hope that this issue might get some traktion.

It seems that ERASE + KNOB corresponds to the same function as the X button in the Modulator lane part of Maschine Software GUI: Completely remove that modulator everywhere.

Additionally the GUI in that panel provides via right click the subtly different (and comparably aggressive) option to Reset Modulator, which resets the curve to a straight line, also across all patterns (without removing the modulator from the pane). That is similar to SHIFT + Pad 10 (Clear Auto), which does the same accross all Modulators, but only on the active pattern.

To be nice and user friendly, what ERASE + KNOB should do is what SHIFT + Pad 10 (Clear Auto) already successfully implements, but do it on that single modulator only. This should be a very simple patch that brings a massive improvement to the quality of the software and user experience.

(One caveat: The MK3 displays a dot on all parameters with modulation lanes. With the behavior I propose, those dots probably wouldn't go away, thus there would be no visual feedback on the device itself for this action anymore - like there is also no visual feedback on the device for Clear Auto. I'd say tha's insignificant. If the current destructive behavior should remain accessible, a good key combo would be SHIFT+ERASE+KNOB. That would be consistent with the SHIFT+ERASE+PAD for completely removing sounds from pads.)

Better user experience translates to more satisfied customers, which translates to more recommendations, which translate to more sales and better public image. That is something that should be relatable to developers, product owners, sales people, and shareholders alike, isn't it?

@Jeremy_NI @Matt_NI @IdontKnowWhoToSummon... please please please, I would be super stoked to see this patch in a future update. The cost is so low compared to the payoff, giving this some priority should be a no-brainer, seriously.

Maschine is amazing and it can get even closer to perfection. Let's go 😊

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