M+ 1.6.1 Any new effect on empty group - no possibility to change parameters with knobs

AdelV
AdelV Member Posts: 432 Guru
edited April 16 in Maschine

Hello,

Dear Maschine heads and @Jeremy_NI can you check this:

  1. Newest Maschine+ and newly added effect
  2. If I load Bite, Flair, Dirt on empty group (without sound) there is no possibility to change parameters with encoders.
  3. Maschine seems responsive but effects control are no.
  4. This is bug wich was reporter by my friend from FB group and looks like I can reproduce it.

Have a nice day!

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Comments

  • rephazed
    rephazed Member Posts: 21 Member

    I wonder if that's an intended behavior? i.e. if there's nothing to effect, the parameters don't work. I tried this and can reproduce this. However, as soon as I add a sound or route a different sound or group to this group, then I am able to tweak the parameters. Feels like a bug although I personally can't think of a use-case where you'd want to be able to have a controllable effect without a sound in the group or anything routed to it.

  • AdelV
    AdelV Member Posts: 432 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/222244#Comment_222244

    Yeah, maybe. I think it’s just safer to report it ;-) I like to make pre-made templates with effects because I’m using a Stream Deck with the M3 on my desktop to work faster. I guess if I were to transfer it for standalone use, I would have discovered this bug anyway. ;-)

  • Michael_NI
    Michael_NI Product Team Posts: 19 mod
    edited April 18
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/44484/m-1-6-1-any-new-effect-on-empty-group-no-possibility-to-change-parameters-with-knobs

    Thanks AdelV, this might be cosmetic.. after checking this again looks like the UI is updating as soon as you route some audio to the group. can you try that?

    ha thanks rephazed, i just saw your comment…

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,261 Expert
    edited April 18

    @Michael_NI Is it working also when routing an external source to the group containing only the effect?

    This could be a reason to have a group with only an effect on it.


    In any case, I think it would be better to have parameters responding anyway (even because there is no reason to have them not reacting). It could be misleading for users to see them not responsive (as happened to AdelV and his friend)… or even worst, it prevents to be able to do what AdelV suggest: prepare something in advance (in this case, a group with an effect set up as you want it where then you’ll be able to route anything you want).
    If I want to have a similar group prepared and ready to route something there in a live situation, it is not possible to then set all the parameters how I want them on the fly (since I’m live…people would hear everything… and the desired behavior of the effect couldn’t be achieved immediately). This strange behavior prevents it.

    These are just 2 examples “of a use-case where you'd want to be able to have a controllable effect without a sound in the group or anything routed to it”

    Unless there’s a reason for not allowing it… more than cosmetic, I think it’s probably a bug/oversight. And I struggle to see a reason for not allowing it

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,003 Expert
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/222582#Comment_222582

    Either of the answers say the controls work as soon as you have any audio routed to the Group.

    My guess would be that the whole effect is inactive as long as it doesn’t have an active audio input. Possibly a design decision which avoids wasting precious CPU cycles on processing nothing.

    However, the exact behavior should be documented.

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 472 Guru

    Empty project. Load new plugin on SOUND. No audio going to it. Moving knobs changes values as expected

    Load new, internal plugin on empty group (e.g. compressor). Moving knobs changes values.

    Load a new VST on an empty group. Moving knobs will not change the values being displayed

    Go to the first sound slot and set the input to <something>. Go back to the group and you'll see your knobs were actually changing the values. You just didn't see the values changing. So if your plugin loads 100% dry and you were turning the knob to make it 100% wet, you didn't see the display changing. Once you have audio routed, you'll see you did in-fact set it to 100% wet.

    I don't think the effect is inactive; I think refreshing the display is inactive until there is audio.

    This isn't an issue I'd ever run into; so it's not like I care. That said; this looks like a bug, smells like a bug, walks like a bug (and tastes like chicken)

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,261 Expert
    edited 3:14PM

    Yeah… I doubt it was a design decision (specially because it works as expected in all other cases and it’s just not displayed with the new FXs).

    Even because it would have no sense.

    Note that we are not saying the effect must be active. Just that we would like to see how we are setting the parameters.

    I don’t find it so strange to want to have, e.g., Flair set up as we will use it and ready to receive anything we will route at it.

    @ozon sorry…I asked the specific question because I don’t see in the answers them saying “any audio”.

    One speaks about “sound” and “group” and the other says “some audio”. It could be sounds/audio coming from other groups. Even if I think that if it works with one type of routing it will probably work in all cases, I wanted to be sure.

    In any case (even if the external audio is confirmed), as we already said that case (external audio) is not the only one for wanting to load and manage an FX to a group without anything routed to it (preparation being another one)

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