Maschine 2 automation in action (examples)

Solncev_ · 2022-01-23T12:29:11+00:00

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Solncev_

This is what the filter movement looks like when I use the knob manually ↓

https://youtu.be/0aICHWC_wUk

This is what the filter looks like when it reads the automation. ↓

https://youtu.be/UOgipjOXpAk

This is the automation drawing that turned out when recording

I think that for those who write electronic music, this becomes a serious problem.

automation cannot be smooth and makes jumps. Automation draws few dots, however if you use shift +knob dots become enough.

we do not have midi modulators, so we can only rely on automation.

Please do something about it. Maschine is a great tool for writing electronic music and working with synthesizers, but it has a number of serious drawbacks for this.

If I do not understand something correctly, I will be very glad to advice.

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Comments

D-One

I hate to be that guy but technically it's Modulation, everyone does say 'Automation' tho. AFAIK the issue is the step resolution available and/or the fact Maschine doesn't interpolate between steps.

To elaborate a bit:

Without SHIFT Modulation in MAS seems to be limited to a range of 101 values, (0.00 to 1.00). With SHIFT I am not sure if there is a higher resolution or if steps are just recorded more often, the GUI still only shows 101 values when SHIFT is used so this is a bit confusing to me. On something like a filter that can be anywhere from 0hz to 75616hz** only 101 values won't be enough so it will be jumpy. The fact that Modulation is relative to Knob Position in Maschine might play a part in all this but I'm not sure.

With a regular MIDI CC we also only have 7-bit resolution, 128 steps; that's more than 101 but not by much.
Then there's NRPN / high-resolution CC / 14bit - 16384 steps, which AFAIK is not part of the MIDI 1.0 spec, the only control with a resolution close to that is the Pitch Bend.

So... On a DAW using regular MIDI CC has sort of the same issue as in Maschine but the DAW interpolates the difference between two 7bit Step's in 14bit, resulting in a lot more smoothness, like so:

In the above example GIF (captured with a lot of zoom-IN) Ableton is filling the gaps between a step at 170Hz to another at around 480Hz give or take, Maschine not doing this is the main issue I think.

**Note: Volcano shows a max of 75616hz instead of up to 44100hz or whatever your sample rate is set up at, probably because of Oversampling, Nyquist rate, and all that jazz??

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2174#Comment_2174

Thanks for your reply. Very interesting, there are things in your post that I did not know.

interpolation is what I miss in maschine.

based on your experience how much modulation in maschine is a problem for you ?

I am absolutely in love with step modulation inside the maschine controller but doing fade up/out is a pain.

D-One

I am absolutely in love with step modulation inside the maschine controller but doing fade up/out is a pain.

For STEP sequencing I think Maschine is great, no complaints altho I don't really use it.

interpolation is what I miss in maschine.

I don't think that will ever be possible without a very big overhaul to Modulation, right now the focus is dealing with Apple's M1 shananings, before that the focus was Clips, some VST3 stuff also seems close so I wouldn't count on anything changing for Modulation anytime soon.

There's also some correlation between fancy interpolation or modulation/automation lines and a mouse VS a device that works like a standalone and has to be simple, MAS tends to avoid new features that require a mouse like the plague, unfortunately... I'm guessing with the release of the M+ things just got even more sensitive in this topic.

based on your experience how much modulation in maschine is a problem for you ?

Modulation is such a problem for me that I basically gave up on using it in Maschine, there are no curves / points, copy, paste, move, etc... The last 3 are essential to me and I often require high editing detail and the possibility of changing / moving things around efficiently, MAS is terrible at both for my personal needs. I've made peace with the fact MAS is just a sketch pad for me, but for others, it might be a 1 stop shop to do everything, it's very subjective.

Murat Kayi

D-One is right, that is modulation and I only point it out again, because maybe you might try automation from outside Maschine instead?

I do it for fun, because I like to connect things, but maybe it opens up workarounds for you. For example, I have Reaktor standalone (synced to Maschine via Ableton Link) sending Midi CC to Maschine, I MidiLearn a Maschine parameter knob and now Reaktor controls its movements.

As a problem solving tool it sounds clunky, I know. As I said, I do that for the fun of connecting a modular system to any knob in Maschine and that is a different motivation.

By the way, @D-One, I think the "Auto" button is the culprit why people mix up modulation and automation

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2192#Comment_2192

sad to hear that. I really like the MAS workflow. I love using controllers for writing music and MAS seems to be the best option for me. Push is not the same.

But the problem with modulations is a serious argument against MAS.

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2196#Comment_2196

For now, I'm using ShaperBox to solve this problem. But this is not very convenient. You need to have a shaperbox for each pattern.

Yes, I combined the rector and MAS, but I only have one midi channel for this. for this I had to make a midi output from the audio interface to the midi receiver and send it back from the midi receiver to the midi input of the audio interface.

sometimes I also have fun in this way with the rector, but this is not a working scheme

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2196#Comment_2196

Can you tell me how you connected the rector and MAS?

I heard that on MAC OS this is much easier to do. Are you using MAC?

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2204#Comment_2204

Yes. MacOS has a system for both Audio and MIDI stuff built-in, in Windows you need external drivers, like LoopBe1 for example.

https://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html

Murat Kayi

I use Loopmidi on Windows. Together with a CV to CC module in Reaktor (I use Blocks for this), I can MidiLearn just the right knob on the right channel.

It's clumsy. But it works

Olihop

It seems to me that the number of points is linked to the value of the grid. A grid value set to 1/128 will record many more points than a value set to 1/16.

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2267#Comment_2267

@D-One @Murat Kayi There is an ancient bug in MAS where you can't use multiple midi outputs at the same time. MIDI outputs just stop working. because of this I can't use this method.

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2318#Comment_2318

It's would be nice but it doesn't work like that. The dots are not attached to the grid even if you press #

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2325#Comment_2325

AFAIK that's only a problem in Windows with the DIN MIDI Out, no?

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2318#Comment_2318

Some things work like that but only in STEP mode, Knob modulation ignores Grid.

Solncev_

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/2327#Comment_2327

I use analog synthesizers. When a failure occurs, all midi outputs will stop. so I use a midi receiver with reverse midi send.

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