Is there a non-NI manual which does a better job of explaining the various modes?

S Righteous · 2022-06-01T03:47:44+00:00

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Here is what throws me off.

The various modes (buttons on the left) are different depending on what Pad Mode you are in (buttons along the top). Ok, I can probably figure out those combinations.

But this isn't the whole story. the combination of Left Mode buttons, and Top Mode buttons also depends on which mode you were previously in, which makes it hard to learn, and be intuitive with Maschine.

Here is an example:

Start by hitting the button to enter EVENTS mode.

If I now hit the Pad Mode button, I can toggle between seeing the pads or seeing the events. If I hit the Keyboard button, I can toggle between keyboard pitch pads or events for the selected sound only Chord mode works like Keyboard mode.

Step Mode now only shows the selected events in the timeline. One row of notes. The pads represent those events. Toggling this by hitting Step Mode again, just changes the button options on the screen, not what the pads do, or screen shows.

But if you hit Events, then Pad Mode, then Step Mode, this is an entirely different view. Instead of just seeing the selected events, you see all of them in the right window.

Step now toggles between an event timeline and a detail of the events with velocity.

Both of those show the events on the Pads.

Step Mode does different things depending on what mode you were in previous??

This makes it really hard to remember where the hell I am, and how the hell to get to the screen I want.

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S Righteous

Great video - thanks for posting!

I spent the day learning about Event editing with the manual, before I saw this video. One thing I didn't realize is that you can move notes up and down with the 4D encoder in Keyboard mode, because I tried it with Pad mode first. Of course there is no need for this to be inconsistent.

Here are my thoughts on Event Editing:

1) NI really dropped the ball with an obvious workflow improvement. The bounding box on the left screen can can easily be adjusted in size and location. So use it like a select box, so that when you click "ALL" to select notes, it should only select all WITHIN THE BOUNDING BOX, as one would logically assume. The current system with the bottom knobs is tedious.

The bounding box already gives great visual feedback as to 'what' will be selected, so why not just do that - it won't interfere with any existing functionality, and since you can expand it to full width, it would still cover "All" as the button does now.

Or if it must be a separate feature:

Let SHIFT + ALL = All events inside the select box.

I call it a select box because that is what any UX designer would assume it is.

2) Note Lengths should be measured in note values, or grid values, not whatever it is now (tics?).

3) Why can't you ever snap end points to the grid? After quantizing, your note lengths still have variation based on what you played. An example is one note being 1927 and another being 1929, and fine adjustments won't allow you to make these the same length, even though they are both now quantized to the same starting point.

In my mind, note length is simply broken. Any variation in start to end point which gets recorded, should be removable after quantizing. Your current best bet is to delete your notes, and re-enter them manually, pre-quantized. This seems to be the only way to get consistent note length.

4) Step mode should keep the first beat division on the first column of pads, no matter the time signature. So when it's 4 beats to the bar, 1, 5, 9 and 13 are on the beat as it is now. But It should also be this way with triplet signatures, just have the playhead ignore pads 4, 8, 12, and 16. That would be way more intuitive. The current step mode will never be intuitive for using triplets.

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S Righteous

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/19658#Comment_19658

Yeah, I totally feel this. Many people have different opinions on workflow, because they do different things. But if the core of the UX is logical and clear, then every workflow will benefit. NI has a lot to learn about this basic principle. Where it gets tricky is 'multiple options' vs 'consistency'. Adding more ways to do something sounds good, but not if it impedes being able to predict or know what something will do.

As basehead617 recommended: "You know, exactly what the buttons say!"

S Righteous

I've been voicing my gripes on this forum, because I care, but mainly to be corrected if I overlooked something, or others have found solutions to the things which nag me.

I can tell NI doesn't listen to feedback, based on comparing the software now, to where it was when I stopped using it 10 or so years ago.

To be more positive, I should post the top ten reasons I prefer using Maschine+ over the many other hardware options available. Maybe that would be helpful to some potential buyers.

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DeepThumb

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/19622#Comment_19622

Here you go:

https://www.dvd-lernkurs.de/native-instruments-maschine-mk3.html

Kubrak

@S Righteous wrote

2) Note Lengths should be measured in note values, or grid values, not whatever it is now (tics?).

3) Why can't you ever snap end points to the grid? After quantizing, your note lengths still have variation based on what you played.

2) One may need to use note lengths different from grid or note value.... For sounds, synth pads and so on.

3) While it might be good to add "snap note lenght" to Maschine functionality, I would hate if Maschine snaps to grid the both - start and end in all situations... One may deliberately want to have the "note" longer/shorter.

4) This might work for 3 and 4 beats, but what about 5, 6, 7, .....? Also, beside Maschine with 4x4 pads, there is Jam with 8x8 pads, which is way more better for step sequencer stuff.

Generally, you right Maschine could do certain things better. My guess is that many things are as they are because of history. And also Maschine SW must interact well with several controllers Maschine MK3/MK2/MK1, Mikro MK2/MK1, Studio and Jam.

NI is not Apple to abadon everything if the support would be burdensome... So there is influence of legacy stuff in NI products.

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S Righteous

2) One may need to use note lengths different from grid or note value.... For sounds, synth pads and so on.

4) This might work for 3 and 4 beats, but what about 5, 6, 7, .....? Also, beside Maschine with 4x4 pads, there is Jam with 8x8 pads, which is way more better for step sequencer stuff.

On point 2 and 3, yes we are in alignment. Of course I use notes which are not the same length, my point is that you cannot deliberately make two notes the same length, which is clearly a bug.

On point 4 you are right, I was only thinking of divisions smaller than the 4/4. If someone were writing prog, then 7/4 becomes crucial.

Kubrak

my point is that you cannot deliberately make two notes the same length, which is clearly a bug.

I would not call it a bug, maybe inconsistency... But trully said, can anyone in the world distinguish note lenghts 1927 and 1929?

S Righteous

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/19728#Comment_19728

When triggering samples with carefully edited with zero endpoints - you can tell the difference, absolutely, every time.

Kubrak

OK, for samples in certain scenarios.. In case one needs exacly same lenght, one may set one note lenght and make duplicates. Or make the note little longer, so that sample ends before the note ends....

You are right, that snap the length note might be handy for some uses. I have never needed something like that, but understand someone might find it usefull.

S Righteous

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/19313#Comment_19313

I'm now encountering this level of confusion. Your advice should be put on the top of the list for the NI roadmap because the Maschine is supposed to be performance oriented and you can't perform with an instrument which is so unpredictable. I've been trying to get Scene mode to work, and I have patterns from Bank 2 playing, but in Scene mode, the arrow buttons do not scroll you to Bank 2, and the Shift Bank + button does not take me to Bank 2, so now I have lists of all the patterns for Bank 1, which I can select for my scene, but no way to remove, see, or edit the pattern lists for Bank 2 ? The most intuitive option for me was the arrow buttons which in all other modes (like mixer) allow you to scroll to the next bank. Why NI Why?

S Righteous

I should be more specific, as the NI terminology doesn't map well to the labels on the buttons, and you have different modes depending on button combos.

In "Ideas" mode, you can see Scenes, and you can select patterns for each group. I have groups in Bank 2 which are playing in a particular scene, but I can only see groups from Bank 1. There is a "Bank" + set of buttons when you hit shift, but this does nothing.

darkwaves

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/29047#Comment_29047

That's for banks of scenes. You can fit 8 scenes on the screen at a time. If you have more than 8, you'll be able to bank over to them.

Use the 4d knob to move over to your other groups. Just push to the right. Alternatively, use the group buttons. Hold shift to switch between banks of groups.

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