Native Access went to update and now no longer working

Options
Angles Rest
Angles Rest Member Posts: 8 Member

I've read several of the comments about issues with updating NA to the current version. I've read the support pages from NI on trouble shooting. My problem doesn't appear answered anywhere and I'm grasping for help.

The first issues was the "Unable to uninstall old version of NI NTKDaemon." I solved that via the microsoft link to completely remove an a program and that took care of that issue.

I have since gone on to have the "Status: Windows Installer" green bar repeat over and over for hours both when trying to install the standalone NTKDaemon file as well as when simply trying to install both the old NA 1 or NA 2 files as admin. I can't get things to install to save my life. Firewall software turned off etc....

Is there anyone that has a similar problem or suggestions? After buying some of the Cyberdeals, I'm now left hanging. Very frustrating.

PC Windows 11


Answers

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,460 mod
    edited November 2023
    Options

    Prior to tinkering with your computer then always manually make a new Windows restore point and if you want to be really sure of being able to revert your actions then take a full image based system drive backup using a backup tool such as e.g. the free Paragon Backup & Recovery Community Edition ! I can give you no warranties with respect to fewer or more problems. To be absolutely safe then always use a recognized backup solution to make a full system drive backup to another drive and as a matter of principle also always have a tested as working Recovery boot media at hand !

    One of the problems with installing Native Access has been that N.I. uninstaller does not clean sufficiently after the old installations , in particular if you have had more versions installed. Remnants of old installations could be both on hard drive and in Windows registry !

    It should go without saying that it is very important that you have the proper credentials to install stuff on the computer (That you are an admin with full access to all drive destinations in questions).

    Uninstall and delete anything Native Access and NTKDaemon from both drive and registry. A tool that might help do that is the N.I. registry tool from the page : Fixing Software Update Installation Issues (Windows) : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003509269-Fixing-Software-Update-Installation-Issues-Windows- , some people have reported good results using that , but sometimes in the past it has not been enough so be sure that any trace of the previous installation has been removed from both drive locations and registry. (in particular make sure that no trace of neither Native Access nor the NTKDaemon are running neither as process nor as service after a reboot after the uninstall) . You can also try to use the "Forced Uninstall" function of the Revo Pro (has a free trial!) (Revo Pro only requests that Windows makes restore points but does not have any awareness of if it has been made or not so best policy is to manually make any restore points) . When completely sure that all traces of past installations has been removed from both drive and registry then check that Windows third party program install protection is turned off and turn off AV temporary.

    Then run the newest Native Access installer as an Admin ! And then in case of problems also always try to start the Native Access client as an Admin !, Also , it ought not be necessary to install the NTKDaemon separately from the Native Access installation !

    Problem ought not persist but if problem persists after the above has been tried then you need to get support to assist you ! : Install support : : http://bit.ly/NIsupport_install

  • Angles Rest
    Angles Rest Member Posts: 8 Member
    edited November 2023
    Options

    @PoorFellow, Thank you for taking the time to suggest those possible fixes. Much more helpful than the oblivious response I got from customer support, who didn't even acknowledge my screenshot nor problem I was having. I wish I could say that the problem was solved but I can't. It does appear that I've reached a point that is more typical of others in that the "Dependency...... taking longer than normal" spinning circle is my current condition.

    NTKDaemonServices shows up in the services window but it states that it's disabled. Trying to sort that out. Just doesn't look like it's being installed no matter which way I try to install it; directly or via NA installer.

    I am simply at a loss but appreciate the time you took to try to help!!

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,460 mod
    edited November 2023
    Options

    Sorry to learn that the advice given did not remedy the situation. Of course I am unaware of how thorough that you managed to be with respect to remove all traces of past installations from both drive and registry. But since you are using Windows 11 then I presume that there could also be some weird problem with Windows 11 that I am not aware of. Because the advice did not help and because the world is as the world is then all I can do now is to share some thoughts with you and otherwise leave it to N.I. support to sort you out.

    In the past then as it ought to be obvious from my initial answer to you then a major problem for Native Access installation has been problems with leftovers from past installations that has made the new install of the N.A. fail .

    That said then I will share some thoughts about reasons for why install on Windows otherwise fails to install properly in a situation like this: The overall reason is Access problems ! They can be created by Microsoft Windows security, third party security programs and by user not having sufficient credentials to access or 'ownership' to access. But access problems can also be because some part of Windows or some program lock the file because as in use. And there is probably some other major reason for access problems that I will remember at a later time.

    But there is also 'incompatibility' problems, like a file that installation or N.A. depends on has changed into a version not compatible and that can be created both by Windows and by third party programs. But Windows itself can also have altered important files or processes or dependencies , especially on major version changes , like from 10 to 11..

    Since I am not at your computer , you are , then you will have to try to evaluate yourself what you think is the reason for your present predicament. But if the problem is not because of some type of basic incompatibility with some change in Windows 11 , which I to start with will put on the bottom of my list then apart from doing what were suggested in my first post then a step to add prior to trying a re-install of N.A. would be to boot Windows into fail-safe mode where it would avoid loading any third party programs that could possibly disturb the installation.

    Finally then , it is actually possible that the app installs sort of correctly but that something on your computer prevents stuff from working anyway..

    Also , I have seen somewhere in this forum that something N.I. had a problem with something Visual C++ something (wrong version present on computer). Which brings up the questions which 'dependencies' and 'prerequisites' that the Native Access and NTKDaemon code has and depends on if any , and me neither being N.I. developer nor a N.I. support dept. worker then I am not privy to any such information either..

    And all of the above sort of takes for granted that there is no problem in the N.I. Native Access code and no problem with the N.I. validation servers interfacing with Windows 11...

    Either probe your installation or get someone with more knowledge to take a look at it , like N.I. support.

    Either way then this is one of them situations where when everything else fails then a final troubleshooting step would be to take a full system backup and then make a complete and utter reset of Windows (wipe drive and reinstall Windows if needed) and then try to install the N.I. app on a freshly installed Windows. And if that didn't work then reload old backup and if it did work then take a backup more of that and then decide where to go from there - if one wants to go back and troubleshoot old system or if one wants to add more to new install until it fails - or not !

  • Angles Rest
    Angles Rest Member Posts: 8 Member
    Options

    Thanks again. I tend to believe in the KISS principle in that the simplest answer is the correct one and somewhere in your advice lies the answer. I have completed all updates and used the suggested programs to remove any instances of the programs listed in the help section. I am running things as Admin and have removed any firewalls and turned off any software protection. The computer is new and is only used for music so as not to introduce anything to the system that might cause problems. All other venders work just fine.

    The problem is the hangup at starting the NTKDaemon Service. It appears that the file can't be found in the NI subfolder, "NTK". I believe I saw a previous post of how someone stuck it there so I'll give that a search as well as send another ticket off to support.


    Again,

    Thank you for taking such time to assist me.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,460 mod
    edited November 2023
    Options

    You are very welcome.

    Your post though make me want to say that if the only problem is that the NTKDaemon is missing then we can just copy it to there somehow ! But it probably is not that easy ! However if it is that easy as just putting the Daemon into the right place then try this while having a proper unzip utility installed to 'unpack' the application :

    At location : C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Native Access\resources\daemon\win

    is the NTKDaemon 1.14.0 Setup PC (if it's not there you may have to download the Daemon installer) , unpack that to NTKDaemon 1.14.0 Setup PC

    Then you have the directories : C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Native Access\resources\daemon\win\NTKDaemon 1.14.0 Setup PC\data\OFFLINE\FC8B6433\5163C69B , and there the darn daemon is !

    Then grab the darn Daemon and all other content from there and copy it to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Native Instruments\NTK where it belongs.


    It most likely is not that simple but you can try anyway !

  • Angles Rest
    Angles Rest Member Posts: 8 Member
    Options

    @PoorFellow,

    You were correct, not that simple! From what I can tell, it is finding the NTKDaemon installer from elsewhere and it is apparently redundant in the other location. I have done what you have described in your other posts. Created a restore point. Removed files from the Registry and folder locations, etc.

    What I did find is this....

    When I went to run NA as admin, it did the same thing with the white window stating that it is Installing dependencies.

    What I noticed in the task Manager was that there were several instances of NTKDaemon Setup running.

    I decided to End Task on one of them and low and behold, the window changed to the NTKDaemon Setup Window below.

    Unfortunately, that is where my luck has run out. If I continue with the installation, I find myself with the following screen that repeats indefinitely.

    And when I look at the registry, I see NTKDaemon still disabled and I am not able to start it.

    When I try to, I get the error noted above that it is marked for deletion, yet nothing happens. I have cleared the registry and tried to install NTKDaemon directly and get the same outcome. I feel I'm close but something is still amiss.

    Yes, I have contact Support but have gotten no help on the matter. There really is no support that I can see, except for what you have provided.

    AR

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,460 mod
    edited November 2023
    Options

    If you have done everything as you should have then doing it all again will not change anything at all and in any case I can in no way guarantee that doing it even more properly actually will change anything , but still , I have to ask !

    Sorry , you writing this , quote : "Removed files from the Registry and folder locations, etc." ,

    Makes me have to ask : does that mean that you did a manual search using Windows Explorer on the whole drive C: for both Native Access and NTKDaemon ? Or did you just remove from where you thought that it was ? (The Daemon likes to lurk where you do not think that it does ! )

    Hard drive needs to be cleaned thoroughly and that means :

    To delete all directories and files , and any instances of anything named Native Access and NTKDaemon from the whole drive - including destinations such as (can not remember which exactly but also depends on version)(Mentioned destinations are Windows 10 , not having Win 11 I can not confirm it for Win 11) :

    C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Local\ and C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Local\Native Instruments

    C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\ and C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\Native Instruments

    C:\ProgramData\ and C:\ProgramData\Native Instruments

    C:\Program Files\ and C:\Program Files\Native Instruments

    C:\Program Files\Common Files\ and C:\Program Files\Common Files\Native Instruments

    So afterwards if you manually search for Native Access and NTKDaemon on C: using Windows Explorer then you will come up empty.

    Also I have to ask :

    Did you use the forced uninstaller of the Revo Pro trial ? and let it remove it's findings ? In Revo Pro you should use forced unistaller twice , one time where you put in remove Native Access and one time where you ask remove NTKDaemon . Using Revo Pro like that gives the greatest chance of getting a clean registry. If you manually have made a restore point and also have Revo Pro backup changes prior to cleaning registry then you should not be able to mess it up beyond repair if need be. And again , when finished then even a manual search of registry for 'Native Access' and 'NTKDaemon' in any place of consequence must come up empty (Revo Pro ought not fail if using Forced Uninstall , just saying).

    And after reboot there must no trace of anything process or service named 'Native Access' or 'NTKDaemon to find prior to any re-install attempt...

    (No matter how annoying I may seem then I am really only trying to help , and sorry but I do not have better to offer at the moment other than we/you need to be sure that you were actually thorough enough !) (I will ponder more but the above is what your most recent post gave of reflections from here 🤔) Also , I am sorry if you think that I ought to have posted more from the start but one or more people here have been rather negative towards me because I often tried to help people like you earlier in time which did make me a little apprehensive when posting !

  • Angles Rest
    Angles Rest Member Posts: 8 Member
    Options

    @PoorFellow, I know you're trying to help. The whole process is a bit overwhelming for the novice who simply wanted to buy a software package that I thought was more stable. None the less, I have dug a bit deeper in trying to unravel this all and appreciate the time you have spent.

    I have gone thru things as you have said. I have Revo Pro but am concerned about deleting all that it has found with the Native Access search. The image below shows what it found with the forced uninstaller but these items don't have Native Access in their names and have me a bit on edge in deleting them. I certainly don't want to delete some of the folders shown. I have deleted the other items that included NA in them for now. I have checked a few more items in the NI help section in regards to updates, Visual C++ Distributables, Graphics Card updates, etc. I have tried again and am still getting to the window where it states that Dependency installation process taking longer than normal.... Calling it a night.


  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,460 mod
    Options

    Sorry , all I wanted to do by the prior added remark were to make sure that you had cleaned sufficiently on drive and in registry prior to install. On Windows 10 then the bulk of the problem with Native Access problems installation that has not been cause by A.V. and access problems ought to be cleared by cleaning sufficiently of prior installations before re-installation..

    But me not having Windows 11 I wouldn't know if there are specific problem with Windows 11. The software package runs quite OK on my Windows 10 rig and my impression is that it generally runs OK.

    If you can not get the Native Access with the NTKDaemon to install neither by sufficient cleaning before nor by same if trying in failsafe mode then to me it suggests that there is something very wrong somewhere either with N.A. on Windows 11 or with Windows 11 or your Windows 11...

    But , you will simply have to let support handle the matter for you , because you are simply wasting your time with my, in this connection, poor attempts to help you...

    Best wishes for your fix !



    Otherwise I can only give more of the same advice , sorry :

    As for Revo Pro then it offers backup of changes prior to making them if it has not somehow been turned off. But please notice that Revo Pro does NOT make restore points it only requests that Windows do it doesn't check if the restore point has actually been made. So restore points are better made manually ! Anyway , I can not help you with your decisions, I am no expert on reg entries.

    When in doubt then always manually make a new Windows restore point and if you want to be really sure of being able to revert your actions then take a full image based system drive backup using a backup tool such as e.g. the free Paragon Backup & Recovery Community Edition ! To be absolutely safe then always use a recognized backup solution, such as referred to, to make a full system drive backup to another drive and as a matter of principle also always have a tested as working Recovery boot media at hand ! (If you later want a paid version then this is that)

    The above advice is meant for everybody but is especially good for people that are afraid of messing up if trying to solve a problem. If you are to acquire on single compute skill then that is the best skill to acquire ! The ability to know how to take a full image based system drive backup and how to reload an OS from backup ! It's also nice to be able to use file backup utilities but system backups are the most desired skill !

    So in short , if you know how to make and use system backups , then you can get rid of a lot of self-doubt and relax more because then as long as you don't completely screw up the hardware or BIOS settings on computer (don't mess with BIOS settings you do not understand !) then you can always just reload your system from a backup. It even released my mother from her fear of ruining her computer. After I setup her computer I took a backup and told her that anything she did to her Windows could easily be fixed in a short time by reloading from the backup. So backups are the way to go if you are afraid of tinkering... You just need to understand that stuff on drives not backed up are , well , not included in your backup !

    Else :

    Either way then this is one of them situations where when everything else fails then a final troubleshooting step would be to take a full system backup and then make a complete and utter reset of Windows (wipe drive and reinstall Windows if needed) and then try to install the N.I. app on a freshly installed Windows. And if that didn't work then reload old backup and if it did work then take a backup more of that and then decide where to go from there - if one wants to go back and troubleshoot old system or if one wants to add more to new install until it fails - or not !

  • Aurasic
    Aurasic Member Posts: 15 Member
    Options

    ... or avoid Native!

Back To Top