Save Not Saving

I have a project which does not appear to be saving correctly. A screen recording is attached. Using save from the mk3 or from the software or from the computer keyboard via CMD-S results in a redisplay of the file name with the asterix. If I quit Maschine, it asks me if I want to save the project. At that point, it appears to save and quit. Immediately upon reopening the project, the asterix appears even though nothing has been touched.

This does not happen with other projects. The only unusual thing about this project is that there are more perform effects and more automation than usual (for me that is). That said, this is not a very large or complex project.

Any ideas as to the cause?

https://imgur.com/a/EFiDZeX

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Comments

Sunborn

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/49628/save-not-saving

Hello,

Your project is already saved!

What is happening is that, some instrument or, more often, some FX is constantly working in the background even if your project is not playing. It is on a "constant flux" state so, while it is saved at the moment you click "save", the next second it changes so, technically is "unsaved" again. Automation can do that too. This is normal, there is nothing to worry about. And you do not need to re-save it on exit if you haven't done any work… ;-)

xylemflo

Thanks, this explains it, but it seems contrary to how every other piece of similar software (DAW, plugin hosts, envelope followers, etc) behaves. Every free-running LFO or automated parameter would cause this, so I am surprised I did not run into this before. It must be a particular plugin or type of automation that causes this. I will cease worrying, but this sounds more like a bug than a feature ;-)

Sunborn

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/253645#Comment_253645

On the contrary, it is very common, in Cubase 90% of my projects are exactly like that. And it is not new. It might be even 20 years ago when i first saw this.

However, it depends on the type of effects or automation you are using. I, for exaple, use a lot of "moving" effects, automated filters, pitch shifters with arpeggios and lot of similar stuff. If someone is using "static" effects (ie, a simple reverb or a distortion) then this behavior might be unfamiliar to him because it rarely happens. But for others is an "everyday" thing.

…and it is neither a bug, neither a feature… 😉

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/49628/save-not-saving

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/253645#Comment_253645

i think this was introduced in the 3.4 update , I’ve noticed it ,and I think it got mentioned whilst beta testing by others

as 3.4 updated modulation , Sunborn’s explanation makes sense

xylemflo

"i think this was introduced in the 3.4 update , I’ve noticed it ,and I think it got mentioned whilst beta testing by others as 3.4 updated modulation , Sunborn’s explanation makes sense"

Aha !! This would explain why I have not encountered it before. Just updated to 3.4 …..Thanks

xylemflo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/253669#Comment_253669

Other NI products such as Massive and Kontakt do not behave in this way. Neither do Reaper, Logic, Bitwig, Ableton and PT. IMHO it is counter-intuitive to have an ongoing indication that you have changed a project just because it has a dynamic element such as modulation within it. Regardless of the rationale, I for one hope they change this in a future update.

Sunborn

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/253681#Comment_253681

First of all, instruments and synths has nothing to do with this.

It is DAW related (and Maschine just recently become a "semi-DAW").

Second, as i said Cubase does that. But not only Cubase. Ableton does that too!
I work with Ableton too (though less often).

Sunborn

Ok, lets explain this in details, because this is an every day reality for a pro musician, and i'm really surprised that you never saw it before (and even more with the fact that you practically deny it!)!

_____________________________________________________________________________________

What you are experiencing is the difference between static project data (which you save) and dynamic real-time processing (which is constantly moving).

In the world of Digital Audio Workstations (DAWs), your project is never truly "still." Here is a breakdown of why your software feels like it’s constantly slipping out of a "saved" state.

1. Free-Running Oscillators (LFOs)

Many synthesizers and modulation effects use Low-Frequency Oscillators (LFOs). Unless these are specifically set to "re-trigger" or "sync" to the start of a MIDI note, they are "free-running." This means the wave is oscillating in the background at all times, even when the transport is stopped.

When you hit save, you are saving the parameters (example: "The LFO speed is 2.0Hz"), but the position of that wave changes every millisecond!

2. Generative and "Stochastic" FX

Some modern plugins (like Granular Synths, "Euclidean" sequencers, or generative tools) use randomization seeds or internal clocks that don't reset.

The Flux: A "humanization" or "random" knob is constantly rolling virtual dice.
The Result: Even if you don't touch a single slider, the internal state of the plugin at 12:00:01 PM is mathematically different from its state at 12:00:02 PM.

3. Analog Emulation Noise

High-end "Analog Modeled" plugins (like virtual preamps, tape machines, or compressors) often simulate component hiss or 60Hz hum.

These plugins generate a low-level noise floor to add "warmth."
Because this noise is often modeled as a continuous signal, the plugin is technically "processing" audio data even during silence.

4. Automation and "Ghost" Changes

Automation can cause this "unsaved" feeling in two ways:

Latching/Touch Mode: If your automation lane is set to "Write" or "Latch," and there is any jitter in your hardware controller (like a motorized fader that moves slightly due to electrical noise), the DAW sees this as a manual change and flags the project as unsaved.
Continuous Envelopes: Some DAWs interpret the transition between two automation points as a constant stream of new data, which can occasionally trigger the "modified" flag in the software's code.

Conclusion: Is this a problem?

Technically, no. When you hit Save, the DAW stores the instructions for the sound, not the exact moment of the sound wave itself. As long as your settings (knob positions) are saved, the "flux" will recreate itself accurately the next time you open the file.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Other DAWs

Actually, almost every major DAW exhibits this "unsaved" behavior, but they vary in why they do it and how much they let it bother you.

While the "flux" is a result of the plugins themselves (as we discussed), the "unsaved" status is a choice made by the DAW's code. Here is how the different "Big Players" handle the state of your project:

1. The "Hypersensitive" DAWs (Ableton Live, Logic Pro)

These are the most common culprits for the "constant flux" feeling.

Why: They are designed for live performance and rapid iteration. They have a very "active" undo-history engine.
The Result: If a plugin (like a Max for Live device or a synth with a free-running LFO) sends even a tiny "heartbeat" signal to the DAW's undo history, the DAW thinks, "Something changed!" and puts an asterisk (*) next to the project name. You can save, and 2 seconds later, the asterisk is back!!

2. The "Filter" DAWs (Reaper, Studio One)

These tend to be a bit more "stable" in their saved state because they have more robust filters for what constitutes a "change."

The Difference: These DAWs usually require a parameter change (you moving a knob) or a timeline change (you moving a clip) to trigger the "unsaved" flag. They are better at ignoring the "background noise" of a plugin's internal LFO or noise floor.
Reaper Tip: Reaper is famously customizable. You can actually tweak settings to determine what triggers an "undo" point, which can help silence those "ghost" changes.

3. The "Sandbox" Approach (Bitwig Studio)

Bitwig handles plugins differently than almost any other DAW.

Plugin Hosting: It runs plugins in a separate process (a "sandbox"). This isolation often prevents the plugin's internal "jitter" from leaking into the DAW's main save-state logic.
The Result: You are much less likely to see a "modified" status just because an analog-modeled plugin is hissing in the background.

Can you stop it?

If this behavior is driving you crazy, i am sorry but there isn't a "global off switch", neither any developer will ever create one! However, in many cases, you can usually "tame" it by checking these two things:

Analog Noise Switches: Check plugins like Waves CLA-76, Slate Digital, or UAD emulations. They almost always have a "Noise" or "Analog" switch. Turning this OFF often stops the constant background processing.
LFO Sync: Set your synth LFOs to "Sync" or "Retrigger" mode instead of "Free." This pins the LFO to the project's grid rather than letting it wander aimlessly while the project is stopped.

Cheers 😉

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