Maschine 2 automation in action (examples)

Solncev_
Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

This is what the filter movement looks like when I use the knob manually ↓


This is what the filter looks like when it reads the automation. ↓


This is the automation drawing that turned out when recording

I think that for those who write electronic music, this becomes a serious problem.

automation cannot be smooth and makes jumps. Automation draws few dots, however if you use shift +knob dots become enough.

we do not have midi modulators, so we can only rely on automation.

Please do something about it. Maschine is a great tool for writing electronic music and working with synthesizers, but it has a number of serious drawbacks for this.

If I do not understand something correctly, I will be very glad to advice.

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Comments

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 410 mod
    edited January 23

    I hate to be that guy but technically it's Modulation, everyone does say 'Automation' tho. AFAIK the issue is the step resolution available and/or the fact Maschine doesn't interpolate between steps.

    To elaborate a bit:

    Without SHIFT Modulation in MAS seems to be limited to a range of 101 values, (0.00 to 1.00). With SHIFT I am not sure if there is a higher resolution or if steps are just recorded more often, the GUI still only shows 101 values when SHIFT is used so this is a bit confusing to me. On something like a filter that can be anywhere from 0hz to 75616hz** only 101 values won't be enough so it will be jumpy. The fact that Modulation is relative to Knob Position in Maschine might play a part in all this but I'm not sure.

    • With a regular MIDI CC we also only have 7-bit resolution, 128 steps; that's more than 101 but not by much.
    • Then there's NRPN / high-resolution CC / 14bit - 16384 steps, which AFAIK is not part of the MIDI 1.0 spec, the only control with a resolution close to that is the Pitch Bend.

    So... On a DAW using regular MIDI CC has sort of the same issue as in Maschine but the DAW interpolates the difference between two 7bit Step's in 14bit, resulting in a lot more smoothness, like so:

    In the above example GIF (captured with a lot of zoom-IN) Ableton is filling the gaps between a step at 170Hz to another at around 480Hz give or take, Maschine not doing this is the main issue I think.


    **Note: Volcano shows a max of 75616hz instead of up to 44100hz or whatever your sample rate is set up at, probably because of Oversampling, Nyquist rate, and all that jazz??

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

    Thanks for your reply. Very interesting, there are things in your post that I did not know.

    interpolation is what I miss in maschine.

    based on your experience how much modulation in maschine is a problem for you ?

    I am absolutely in love with step modulation inside the maschine controller but doing fade up/out is a pain.

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 410 mod
    edited January 23

    I am absolutely in love with step modulation inside the maschine controller but doing fade up/out is a pain.

    For STEP sequencing I think Maschine is great, no complaints altho I don't really use it.


    interpolation is what I miss in maschine.

    I don't think that will ever be possible without a very big overhaul to Modulation, right now the focus is dealing with Apple's M1 shananings, before that the focus was Clips, some VST3 stuff also seems close so I wouldn't count on anything changing for Modulation anytime soon.

    There's also some correlation between fancy interpolation or modulation/automation lines and a mouse VS a device that works like a standalone and has to be simple, MAS tends to avoid new features that require a mouse like the plague, unfortunately... I'm guessing with the release of the M+ things just got even more sensitive in this topic.


    based on your experience how much modulation in maschine is a problem for you ?

    Modulation is such a problem for me that I basically gave up on using it in Maschine, there are no curves / points, copy, paste, move, etc... The last 3 are essential to me and I often require high editing detail and the possibility of changing / moving things around efficiently, MAS is terrible at both for my personal needs. I've made peace with the fact MAS is just a sketch pad for me, but for others, it might be a 1 stop shop to do everything, it's very subjective.

  • Murat Kayi
    Murat Kayi DortmundMember Posts: 178 Saw

    D-One is right, that is modulation and I only point it out again, because maybe you might try automation from outside Maschine instead?

    I do it for fun, because I like to connect things, but maybe it opens up workarounds for you. For example, I have Reaktor standalone (synced to Maschine via Ableton Link) sending Midi CC to Maschine, I MidiLearn a Maschine parameter knob and now Reaktor controls its movements.

    As a problem solving tool it sounds clunky, I know. As I said, I do that for the fun of connecting a modular system to any knob in Maschine and that is a different motivation.

    By the way, @D-One, I think the "Auto" button is the culprit why people mix up modulation and automation

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

    sad to hear that. I really like the MAS workflow. I love using controllers for writing music and MAS seems to be the best option for me. Push is not the same.

    But the problem with modulations is a serious argument against MAS. 

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

    For now, I'm using ShaperBox to solve this problem. But this is not very convenient. You need to have a shaperbox for each pattern.

    Yes, I combined the rector and MAS, but I only have one midi channel for this. for this I had to make a midi output from the audio interface to the midi receiver and send it back from the midi receiver to the midi input of the audio interface. 

    sometimes I also have fun in this way with the rector, but this is not a working scheme 

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri
    edited January 23

    Can you tell me how you connected the rector and MAS? 

    I heard that on MAC OS this is much easier to do. Are you using MAC?

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 410 mod
    edited January 24

    Yes. MacOS has a system for both Audio and MIDI stuff built-in, in Windows you need external drivers, like LoopBe1 for example.

    https://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html

  • Murat Kayi
    Murat Kayi DortmundMember Posts: 178 Saw

    I use Loopmidi on Windows. Together with a CV to CC module in Reaktor (I use Blocks for this), I can MidiLearn just the right knob on the right channel.

    It's clumsy. But it works

  • Olihop
    Olihop France - MontpellierMember Posts: 87 Tri

    It seems to me that the number of points is linked to the value of the grid. A grid value set to 1/128 will record many more points than a value set to 1/16.

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

    @D-One @Murat Kayi There is an ancient bug in MAS where you can't use multiple midi outputs at the same time. MIDI outputs just stop working. because of this I can't use this method.

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri

    It's would be nice but it doesn't work like that. The dots are not attached to the grid even if you press # 

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 410 mod

    AFAIK that's only a problem in Windows with the DIN MIDI Out, no?

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 410 mod

    Some things work like that but only in STEP mode, Knob modulation ignores Grid.

  • Solncev_
    Solncev_ Member Posts: 38 Tri
    edited January 24

    I use analog synthesizers. When a failure occurs, all midi outputs will stop. so I use a midi receiver with reverse midi send. 

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