Copying my Factory Library to my User Library- Pros and Cons

ginko
ginko Member Posts: 22 Member
edited January 12 in Maschine

I never got on with the dualistic nature of the Factory/User structure with NI so I read here (thanks @D-One) that you can simply copy and paste all that's listed in the Factory Library to the Documents/Native Instruments/Maschine/Plugins location... and it works!

Pros:

1. unified search

2. no jumping between Factory and User all the time

Cons:

1. third party audio preview still work but NI products do not (solution?)

2. if there are updates to products, they will not happen.

Because of Con no.1, I'm thinking of a possible structure of using Factory Library exclusively for NI products and User Library for everything else.

What do you think?

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Comments

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,477 Expert
    edited December 2023

    The Factory/User split isn't just a NI thing, many companies have such an arrangement, Apple for example in Logic. The reason is that it enables NI to update their own products without any risk of it messing with your stuff, which I think is a good idea on the whole, it's good housekeeping.

    The problem though is in their browsers there is simply no reason to have 2 separate search engines for each 'side', if there was 'one search bar to rule' them all then the problem would be solved. I don't know why they haven't implemented that.

    I would not recommend anything though that results in losing access to updates as sooner or later that will come back to haunt you. As for previews many NI previews are hidden away in folders with obfuscated names so it would be a mission to find them all. So for now my approach is to live with it but campaign for NI to make the search engine cover everything in one go (amongst the many other changes I would like in KK and Maschine especially). Add your voice here:


  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member
    edited December 2023

    In Logic I just use the User library and if I want anything from Apple I look in their section.

    The problem with the NI system is when you save a preset in KK or Maschine in the Factory Library it duplicates the whole instrument to the User Libary with just that one preset in it... which is a mess.

    The other answer is to put all the third party NKS into the Factory location which can be done.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,477 Expert

    Yeah but I would not risk it personally - too much chance of getting overwritten or deleted

    Saving a user preset doesn’t duplicate the instrument- it just means now you have a user preset for that instrument and keeps it in a separate location from Factory content which is safer

    The underlying problem is just that search needs to be unified

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member

    Not actually duplicates the instrument but it duplicates the reference with all the attached graphics...I just find it really messy.

    Back in Kore all of this was so much more straightforward- you used 'Save As Sound' and it was savwd in the library (not USER or FACTORY) as a 'Sound'. Then you could tag it however you wanted.

    But now we have this dualistic system that makes no sense to me.

  • dmori
    dmori Member Posts: 63 Advisor
    edited December 2023

    I've done something similar. I grouped all drum/perc loops together and added to user library. Much easier to navigate, rather than having everything together.

    All I did was duplicate the original folder (this keeps the previews) - removed what I didn't want, then added to my user folder (like 3rd Part NKS).

    So you will still have the original NI Expansions folder PLUS your own slimmed down version in User.

    Much easier to find what I want from expansions quickly.

    BTW - this will have no effect if there is an update from NI as it's a copy.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,477 Expert

    Well except when there is an update you need to copy everything over again. The duality of factory and user was there in Kore too, it just wasn't so visible but user content was still saved to different locations than factory. As I said the problem in KK is the fact that search embodies that duality, that is not necessary, but keeping user data separate from factory is there in all computing (including on an OS level). However Finder search doesn't not search just user or factory but both and that is what KK search should do as well.

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member
    edited December 2023

    Well yes on the OS level 'user/factory' are kept seperate. It's the applcation level that we are talking about here.

    Search is the thing for you, but for me navigating to a tiny little symbol of a head and shoulders (??) and hitting it twice (mostly) and then finding all the same graphics that were in the other tab that I just left is clumbsy and unwieldly. That's what I want to avoid.

    I tend to not use search, I know where my stuff is, I just don't wan't to go on a clicky click journey to get to it. I just want everything in one pane just as Kore was.

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member

    Actually that's good to know if it means the Previews are working. I was using the Documents>Native Instruments>Machine 2>Plugins folder to get stuff in to my user library but you are saying... duplicate the main folder of an expansion, strip it of the stuff you don't want and then add it as a location in Machine's preferences..is that right?

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited December 2023

    Yes. The folder you're referring to is for plugin presets, I'd avoid that... I'd just copy everything into whatever folder you want and add it as a custom User Library in Preferences>Library.

    But like Kymeia said, this solution can break when there's updates, expansions content is very rarely updated, they are all either 1.0.1 or 2.0.0, for samples/tags and whatnot when a new version is released Maschine offers a way to update it inside the app itself but for Instruments/NKS it can get tricky.

    Only do it if you accept the risk that one day you might have to copy everything over again and potentially break things and debug issues.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,477 Expert

    Ah I see, yes there used to be separate icons for user and factory but NI merged them into one, distinguished merely by subtle changes in shade of grey. Really bad move, I do the same thing all the time. That is also something I would like to see changed back.

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member

    Understood about the possible dangers.

    It's my first week with my MK3 but I've been a KK user since the beginning and I always wanted to look at other ways of navigating the NI library paradigm and so MK3/Maschine is a new beginning and an opportunity to investigate. FreelanceSoundLabs offer some intersting takes with a method to put all the user lbraries in the factory tab, but that doesn't really solve it for me.

    Going to have a look into this now.

    Thanks D-One and dmori

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member
    edited December 2023

    OK initial experiments:

    It works, but if you have existing saved presets (in the User library) it's going to be a real pain. I only have a few so I'm going to carry on and sacrifice those presets.

    Previews are not working with some NI Instruments but do seem to work with 3rd party NKS.

    Symbolic Links seem to work but not conclusive on that one.

  • dmori
    dmori Member Posts: 63 Advisor

    If you're on a Mac, put it in Documents – Native Instruments – User Content

    I'm away from my main computer at the moment so can't remember exactly what I did. But I think I may have created a Native Instruments folder in User Content and put them all in their respective Expansions folder. This way, the icons for each appeared in User section. (plus easy to make additions/changes in the future)

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 22 Member

    Thanks dmori

    I've just used another folder on a drive and it works.

    Update to previous post: symbolic links and alias' defintely do not work.

    Previews: NI instruments are hit and miss with Reaktor based instrument Previews not working at all. All the Previews for Straylight series work but not for Kinetic Metal. It's a bit random. About 50/50. I don't know if anyone has any clues on this.

    Saving 'Sound' user presets in Maschine just drops them straight back in the new full libary in the new location. All good on that front and contrary to what I said before..existing User presets are merged into the new full fat library.

    It's starting to look like an option...the big issue is drive space of course.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,477 Expert
    edited December 2023

    Previews: NI instruments are hit and miss with Reaktor based instrument Previews not working at all. All the Previews for Straylight series work but not for Kinetic Metal. It's a bit random. About 50/50. I don't know if anyone has any clues on this..

    Yeah it's not random, it's just that some libraries (mostly newer ones or third party) sensibly keep their previews in a hidden folder ('.previews') with the snapshots or presets, which is how those of us who create user NKS do it.

    However older NI and NKS partner libraries like Kinetic Metal will be using previews from that large Preview Library that is installed via NA, and those are harder to find because, as I said above, the folder locations are hidden with obfuscated names. The folder itself is in User/Shared/NBPL but each folder name is coded (eg '0a214a82-c47b-4061-aaad-96133af7ab0b0a214a82-c47b-4061-aaad-96133af7ab0b').

    I have been able to figure out some of them by searching for distinctive preset names in the ogg files but it's hard to track them all down as there are so many, but that approach may be your best shot.

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