Komplete Kontrol & MK3 Feedback Continued...

MyStudioOne · 2023-12-26T17:45:19+00:00

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I think many of us were disappointed about the closure of Vagus's thread and I don't think it is getting reopened and so why not pick up where we left off in a new thread? Maybe people will keep it 100% civilized this time so that it doesn't get closed yet again!

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Kymeia

OK let's start with a list of things we think are needed to make this the product it could be - my list includes:

1) Bring back NKS editing but this time with a more powerful NKS1 editor that enables you to edit all fields (including bank and sub bank), and to add new user pages at any point in a mapped template and move them around freely (like used to be possible in Kore 2). Even if this is only NKS1 it would still be much more functional than what we have now. Also at the moment the edit panel is really tucked away and takes more mouse clicks to open it than it did before and we no longer have the ability to delete NKS from the database using 'rightclick, delete'

2) Make effects in KK actually usable by adding an effect plugin version, enabling automation to be recorded by hosts, and saveable fx chains. (Also bring back the FX version of Maschine)

3) Make sample browsing actually usable by bringing back drag and drop both within KK (ie browser to hosted plugin) and between the KK plugin and DAW. Without this I really don't see the point of even having a samples browser inside KK.

4) I don't see how 3) would be possible except by also enabling some sort of a side browser, maybe a file browser like in Kontakt? Personally I would much prefer to see a return to having the NKS browser and plugin on the same screen, I always felt it should be possible to decouple them so the browser didn't change size every time you changed plugin, but this modal switching is a pain. A dockable side browser would be better, or popup browser as in Bitwig

5) Have an actual roadmap that shows where KK is heading, and that includes, at some point, the possibility of KK being able to host multiple instruments and fx, and save them all as Multi patches (with macros as well as mappable params, so you can combine more than one param per knob)

6) Search improvements - Fix the search logic to include AND and NOT Boolean's (at the moment it only does OR which means it can't function as a filter as it should be doing). Also can we finally have 'one search bar to rule' them all, rather than separate searches in Factory and another in User - I think I can say most users want to browse all content in one go, not have to do it twice

7) Make it possible to Zoom text as well as resize the interface size, and expand column widths freely

8) Add a full screen mode

9) Add built in preview generation (I just bought VPS Avenger and if you right click on any patch it can create a preview for it, including your own)

10) Add preset import from other plugins and automation for NKS conversion - at the very least it should be possible to do this with VST3 standard presets (.vstpreset) - it is an anomaly that NI now own Plugin Alliance but you can't even see the presets for many PA effects in KK, let alone import them

11) Bring back browsing and organisation by bank and sub bank

12) Bring back browse by plugin type, I hate having browse by ‘brand’ imposed on me, it’s just such a useless way to categorise plugins. This seems extra ridiculous given NKS just moved over to VST3 which reports plugin type to hosts, a perfect opportunity for NI to improve organisation, but instead they chose to ignore that and go for the least helpful and most pointless organisation method imaginable

MyStudioOne

2) Make effects in KK actually usable by adding an effect plugin version, enabling automation to be recorded by hosts, and saveable fx chains.

Unless I am misunderstanding your meaning, we already have all the effects plugins available in our DAWS. You can even create custom effects user presets in KK standalone and then later access those user presets in your DAW.

Studio One 6.5.

And in Cubase 13

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/119937#Comment_119937

Yes you are :) I'm referring to the fact that KK can load and control FX plugins but it can't do a lot with them. I mean KK can host fx and has done for years but they have never been much use, you can add say a delay to a guitar patch in KK and play it in realtime but you can't even record that in a DAW except by directly saving to audio as you can't record automation for FX used in KK. Also it would be great to be able to add an effect version of KK as an insert or send in a DAW and then control an fx plugin like say Ozone directly from the keyboard knobs or Maschine. I have never understood why NI even bothered adding fx to KK in such an incomplete fashion, without having the aim of actually making them of any actual use to musicians and composers.

nightjar

I have a very small request for KK3.

When opening KK3, do not have the "plugin chain" panel selected and opened at the top by default.

My first action after opening is to deselect and get rid of this top panel that is wasting so much space.

JesterMgee

Here are the things I feel (and many others also agree, tho unsure if it is enough to be statistically valid enough) :

Having BOTH browser and plugin view open at the same time is the only way I will even consider revisiting V3 , otherwise I wills stick with V2
Having the preset name list wider or the text smaller so as not to truncate names of almost every preset
Bringing back the browsing of both Banks and Sub Banks from the software (and also fix the damn truncation)
Not just bring back editing of files (insane that was not even a basic feature FFS) buyt allow tags to be typed in without throwing "it already exists :p", if it exists, just apply it then so we can type tags in without having to reach for the mouse

These are the main things I would like to see added BACK into the software before even wasting time again flicking more suggestions off into that black hole. There are many more improvement suggestions I would like to suggest, or more accurately have suggested many times already over the last 10 years, but my wish is just to have basic usability added back again.

Kymeia

Bringing back the browsing of both Banks and Sub Banks from the software

Knew there was something I forgot :) Added to list

Brad Yost

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/119957#Comment_119957

Good luck. I asked for this to be considered about 3 years ago.

MyStudioOne

Since @Matt_NI had committed to and was doing a great job of communicating on a thread that has now been closed, I imagine he will be willing to pick up right where he left off here on this continuation of Vagus's original thread.

Matt_NI

@MyStudioOne I closed the thread but I guess you are trying to ping @Matthew_NI to re-add to the conversation

Kymeia

Added a bit more on NKS editing as I am trying to edit some patches in the KK3 version just to try and get used to it but it is a lot harder for several reasons.

1) First you have to click the little i icon to find the edit panel (it's not really clear to new users) but then you have to click again on another icon (pencil) in a completely different place at the top right to actually edit the NKS, this is a much more complex process than it was before - too many mouse clicks

2) Rightclick/delete has also been removed - why? It's very useful for if you make a mistake in editing and want to delete on the fly, or just to remove dupes from the database. Now you have to manually delete the NKS file then rescan which is a much more lengthy process

Vagus

Some bits from me:

Some plugins no longer allow you to map controls, where they did in 2.9, i.e BT Phobos. The plugin hasn't changed, only KK.
Spitfire Audio dedicated plugins do not expand, due to the way KK 3.x deals with plugin display. Dedicated plugins also do not show under Spitfire Audio vendor. If vendor is now the default view, this should be fixed asap.
I don't see the importance of viewing nks preset info, when edit could be the single button. If NI wants a view preset info, have the 'i' icon, but then a pencil icon immediately next to it to save button presses.

Also - Bug hunt:

The macro to save a preset does not work when caps lock is on in Windows.

BIF

We need robust editing capabilities, that's for sure. But somebody should be on flyswatter duty too. It's time for old bugs to finally be dealt with. Particularly now that NI is making use of QT and other modern development tools, we shouldn't be forced to live with these bugs like they are pets.

I throw down my gauntlet as a challenge for this new year. Okay, it was a rubber glove because I just got done handling raw meat, but still! Make it so that the user is not slowed down or impeded by the software. In other words: Make it so that my only limits are my own!

Happy 2024!

Matthew_NI

I'll accept that challenge, @BIF !

There is a lot being done, a lot to do, and we now have the tools to do it.

Vagus

Adding the idea I had about the rotary encoder using it's lights rotating to show the tempo, when you're using another instrument to record. I'd add that thinking about it, pulsing lights would be better.

This would be an AMAZING addition to MK3, specifically. Off topic, I know...

JesterMgee

Think we need major improvements before overloading them with any "new ideas", lets focus first on just suggestions on getting the thing to actually work as it was designed, then chuck all the ideas for improvements into that black hole...

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