Maschine plus upgrades (ableton push 3 released)
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Oh.. Fair point, I guess I was thinking in terms of the efficiency cores handling background services which might increase over time as standalones of this class became more complicated, or when you simply run projects not that demanding so the lower power ones can be used and you have less heat / power consumption to deal with, longer battery life and whatnot... Not even sure is this is an accurate assessment tho.
Well, it is not accurate.... The same may be achieved lowering CPU clock. The thing is that it is way cheaper/easier to produce many small, weak cores and few big and strong ones.
For example Intel's efficiency cores are less power efficient than Intel's big cores. They make less work for the same amount of energy.... But it looks better in specsheet that their CPU has plentyfull cores.
Those current Intel's 'Frankenstein's creatures' may not enter my door. Last acceptable is 11th gen. I avoid 12-15th gen, so far. If they will go on, even more gens.
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D-One Said:
PC laptops have an insane variety of build quality, longevity, etc, even the same brand might have a great model than a another riddled with problems, so it's pretty hard to compare with MacBook.
Yep, Agree. I (personally) feel Apple computers are rather pricey when comparing raw CPU/Ram/Storage/connectivity to a PC but I still use both and would recommend to someone who needs portability/reliability to consider a macBook for this reason. If they needed the most flexibility and power for desktop usage i'd suggest using a custom built PC and Win11.
I upgrade my main system about every 6-8 years but I repurpose the previous ones for my kids with the oldest machine still running on an i7 920 which I built in 2008 and runs everything my kids want to run no problem. You just don't get that kind of longevity (or gaming ability) from any mac especially when it comes to running the latest version of anything. I also convert old hardware into things like jukeboxes, mame/v-pinball machines, media centres.
Most people aren't that invested nor have any interest for any of that, just want reliable and capable processing power and TBH, a macbook does have (IMO) a more stable and reliable experience out of the box when it comes to runnig productivity stuff and people are willing to pay a little more for that.
Push 3 is no different. It will appeal to some that see its potential now (and for the future) while others will be stuck comparing cost to the technical specs and see no benefit to them. Can't really understand when people want to argue it like everyone should agree.
Kind of like arguing/comparing the cost of ones choice of car. Why would someone even consider spending $50k on a 2 door sports car when a 4WD has far more capabilities and flexibility for way less money and can offer more fun and adventure. In fact why would anyone spend that kind of money on any car when you could just get a motorbike which costs almost nothing to run and is even more fun to ride.
Can't make a "standalone" product if the user then has to go and invest in an iPad for it to function. If Apple were to actually open up the ipad hardware and allow it to be licensed for dedicated purpose (will never happen) then you may have a point. Not everyone wants an iPad no matter how capable a wheel it makes.
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@D-One wrote:
I agree the price is insane
IDK… it costs less than a decent Neumann microphone or some Akai samplers when they were released back in the day (MPC60 ca. 7'000€, S-1000 ca. 13'000€). Seems fine for professional musical instruments and studio gear.
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That’s actually a point I forget sometimes. We have been spoiled with affordable hardware in recent years.
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True. If you look at the second-hand market currently, it's insane how much value for money you can get. Second-hand marketplaces are currently being flooded with Akai MPC One's for around 500 euro, Maschine Plus for around 750 euro, Maschine MK3 for around 400 euros, Ableton Push 2's for about 450 euros etc. It was never better!
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You were focusing on bigging up one product at the expense of another, and used a completely false argument, three MPC Ones is cheaper than a single Push 3, that number is the number you suggested you would need to buy to upgrade the MPC eco to the latest greatest, and you didn't even factor in the price of the extra upgrade you would have to buy for the Push 3, which going by current example would be more costly than another MPC One, so that makes four.
And you completely missed the point that that completely negates the whole idea of upgradability being this huge game changer you seem to think it is, it is not, for it to be a huge game changer they had to support standard hardware that anybody could upgrade, they had to do it at a price point that matches or betters currently available solutions, other wise as show, by your example (buying three MPC Ones) it is a completely false economy.
If anybody wants to buy it at that price, good on them, and as for me fishing out an argument, nope, just replying, maybe you are a bit sensitive to people not agreeing with you?
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Apple machines can be stupid expensive but can also be kind of affordable. I love my newish M1 Macbook Air, cost me 900€ (12 month interest free purchase plan, no less), totally fanless, battery lasts for a full day.. I'm not even sure comparable PC laptops exist, but then again, haven't been looking at PC's for years.
I think Push 3 pricing is ok, especially the controller version. Not sure the upgrade kit or the standalone is worth it, but then again, people have several Elektron grooveboxes, each costing 1500€ so.. And let's not even go to Teenage Engineering prices 😹
Regarding Push 3, I read that someone already created an "arranger mode" for the standalone using Max4live.. and I also read that Push 3 is able to realtime record an arragement, even if you cannot edit it standalone. While I love my Maschine+, I cannot deny feeling a bit jealous of Push 3 users
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“While I love my Maschine+, I cannot deny feeling a bit jealous…” describes exactly how I feel also.
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Yup, I too am a bit jelly. But, give us editable automation on the screens, a few more NI plugs and a Maschine jam mk2 with MPE and I'd forget all about push ;-)
I really wish we could get some sign or communication from NI if M+ will have any development in 2023...
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M+ is a fantastic instrument still, I don’t min lacking probability or poly touch, but I do agree on more usage of the screens, eq, automations, or other stuff. MPE would be nice to have. But really that’s the only thing that I think I miss the most. I like the fact that the automations are “manual”, gives a different feel, a human feel some would say, instead of a “humanize” feature or whatever that function is called. We already have “dehumanize” :) quant
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I’m thinking that if Reaktor would be inside M+, that would be awesome. Imagine all crazy users who know how to create stuff in Reaktor for M+ would show some love in the community and share their stuff. Or even better, M+ users might create more stuff on their own! Learn how to work it!
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Yeah, but then users would need iPad, which would suck. I thought the idea was to simplify by going standalone.
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I gotta agree with this. The fact that you have to buy specialized parts, instead of having some options like you would with a PC, kinda negates the right to repair friendly intent of the Push 3. I can put a wide variety of SSD and HDD brands in my thinkpad, as well as a variety of brands of RAM. So why is Push 3 so special? Why not just buy a NUC and have it permanently wired to a Push 2 & Behringer interface w/ ADAT, then configure it to launch straight into live on boot? If you were to add a portable touch monitor to that setup, you would still spend less than the total price of the Push 3.
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lol @ this place devolving into childish gearspace drama.
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Everything you say here.. BUT... substitute an iPad for the NUC. Much better solution for portability, battery, and you get the touch monitor too!
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