Maschine plus upgrades (ableton push 3 released)

Lipo.exe
Lipo.exe Member Posts: 3 Member
edited May 2023 in Maschine

Thats really sad . I saw ableton push 3 and it has everything what are we missing in maschine more than years 😏push has 8gb ram and it will be really hard to push cpu . Plus it has cv outs (with pedal in/out ) battery and adat input :))) thats really sad that we maschine users are still fighting with bugs and cpu clicks and after push release I realized that its 21 century :)) good luck everyone . Im plannin to sell maschine and buy push 😏

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Comments

  • spock
    spock Member Posts: 25 Helper

    These three years of frustration with the Maschine+ due to bugs and performance issues, now that it's finally becoming stable, it has become obsolete compared to the Push 3. It's a shame that NI missed out on the opportunity to be the ultimate standalone Maschine. Salvation comes from Ableton.

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper

    Same, hoping someone is willing to buy it : D.

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper

    bugs, performance issues and self-imposed limitations to make you buy expansions instead of giving us instruments to play (that 2002 poly-synth, really?)

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 326 Guru

    Not sure I'd go so far as to call it obsolete. M+ is better for my use case.

    I like that they have adat included, but would prefer to bring my own audio interface. I mean, it's not like my audio interface works properly with maschine+, but it's a primary driver for me. Maybe, one day, NI will let me use more than 4 stereo inputs (grrr....). I also depend on my midi interface for my setup. I generally use M+ to make patterns, build out a basic arrangement and then track into my computer. I'm not a big fan of ableton (Cubase 4 life; fight me); but I'm sure I'd be able to figure out a way to handle projects without the full arranger in ableton.

    The selling point for M+ for me is future-proof standalone nature. I moved away from using maschine on my computer a long time ago and that made maschine studio kind of pointless. Even if I found another hardware sequencer/sampler brain for my setup, having a secondary sampler will always be useful. I'm working on my computer and just need a quick sampler; M+ is always there. I'm practicing on my keyboard and something catches my ear. I have a sampler ready to catch it even if everything else is turned off. I've never been like, "I have too many samplers!"

    ...but assuming ableton does add the option to bring our own interfaces; uhh... I just don't need that many samplers. lol. I have 404 as my "other" sampler now. Maybe if NI added something like the skipback recording...

    Anyway; excited to see another entry into the groovebox landscape. I can't wait to see people getting big mad because they can't install omnisphere on their push.

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper

    Ableton instruments vs maschine presets?

    m4l devices, proper multitracking instead of that clunky process import the project, open maschine as vst in your daw? Upgradability?

    Do you know what m4l in standalone put to the table? You need a super fancy midi sequencer? Great audio fx? You can have basically everything.

    This doesn't make maschine plus useless, but it does make it obsolete.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited May 2023

    obsolete? certainly not.

    NI is lucky that Ableton missed the mark on many points...


    -screen too small in height, badly managed (piano roll almost non-existent, very impractical)

    - no arranger

    - no VST so : Ableton stock plugins vs NI stock plugins

    - pricing (!!!)


    only the MPE pads and the hardware evolutivity will surpass what M+ is today. 

    but for everything else NI would have a card to play:

    -implementing MPE recognition in M+ firmware (aftertouch would be nice already..)

    -more NI instruments (now is the time to catch up...because NI is supposed to be superior to Ableton in this field)

    including some "old" instruments: Absynth, GuitarRig (much better than Ableton's amp simulator)

    etc.

    - the possibility to manage/edit automations, visualize curves (for the moment Push v3 doesn't do much better, and the visual rendering of curves is almost excluded due to the low screen height) 


    and last but not least: I much prefer the Maschine workflow...And if I wanted the "Ableton workflow", I would choose the Akai Force (for all the reasons mentioned above: the comfortable screen, the possibility to use an external interface, the arranger, automation curves...).

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper
    edited May 2023

    Ableton stock plugins are on another league compared to NI stock. Those on maschine are just tweakable presets.

    Wavetable, operator, analog, electric, impulse, collision.

    Do you really use the maschine piano roll? Good for you.

    Want to talk about fxs?

    m4l support.

    A proper midi sequencer that can be configurable to do whatever you want thanks to m4l midi devices. Probabilities, midi delay, you name it.

    Want to talk about m4l audio devices?

    Do you want to multitrack record?

    A real step sequencer.

    Adat.

    CV outs

    More ram, a better processor.

    Future proof.

    If all this don't make maschine obsolete, I don't know...

    As for pricing, I prefer to spend 1899 for something that can do pretty much everything and I can upgrade that 1050 for something that is basically a sampler with some half features added here and there.

  • KaOsphere
    KaOsphere Member Posts: 16 Helper

    2nd hand prices are already going down.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited May 2023

    in fact, all my arguments are in the conditional tense: it was "IF" NI decides to get off its a**...

    and so it's still very hypothetical, I admit 

    but it is clear that they still have a window of opportunity! (they have better virtual instruments in stock)

    The hardware is not obsolete, and the Maschine workflow is much better (yes, I use the M+ piano roll a lot and I find it even more efficient than the Akai one with touch screen -> I had an MPC Live for 3 years

    the 4D encoder is really useful for that, everything is very fast) 

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper

    Yeah, I'm with you on this.

    I'm secretly hoping NI will give US something for our loyalty before someone contact me to buy my M+. But I doubt this Is going to happen.

    I also love the M+ workflow, but I need a real groovebox (and it's the missed opportunity that make me feel this way) ... Real instruments to program and play, a good step sequencer, a proper midi sequencer and not just a glorified rompler.

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 133 Pro

    TBH i think this will rekindle interest in Maschine+ and the standalone Akai MPC boxes. Because of pricing. It will cost you 2500 euros to have the standalone version with the full Ableton license. This is over 2x the current market prices for new M+ and MPCs.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited May 2023

    yes, we are a bit tired of waiting (and probably for nothing...)

    it's really discouraging for the user community

    in fact that's why I say they are "lucky" because if the Push v3 had a better screen, allowing to display comfortably a decent pianoroll (with more than 8 notes in height...), automation curves and an arranger window I would have clearly fallen for the Push 3

    Now, I'm still hesitating between: opting for the Akai Force (which already has a lot of these features, but the OS is also far from perfect...) or waiting for a reaction from NI (which may never happen...).

    But for me, Ableton missed the boat for its standalone version.

    (having said that, I'm still an unconditional fan of Ableton Live that I always use on computer...Suite version, intensive use of Cycling Max etc.etc.)

  • DoverBeach
    DoverBeach Member Posts: 48 Helper

    2348 and a lot of us already have ableton suite. I hope it will rekindle intereste in mplus.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 555 Guru
    edited May 2023

    Very interesting! Let's see how the stability will be in standalone use. My only gripe is that this Push3 seems to fall short on the only thing that would have made me sell my M+, the ability to realtime record an arrangement from the session view. If that feature ever comes to Push3 (guessing its not coming to Maschine+?), I will switch. ADAT i/o is great as I have existing ADAT gear already.

    Interesting times ahead

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