KK UI is not scalable?

PulseCode
PulseCode Member Posts: 131 Helper
edited April 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

This question is for native support staff / developers of KK, when will KOMPLETE KONTROL support UI scaling?? I am using 2/ 4k monitors and it looks small even after scaling windows to 150% ??? plugin outside KK look fine, but then I can't use them with my KK keyboard.

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Comments

  • ennoclao
    ennoclao Member Posts: 3 Member

    Same here. It's embarrassing in the year 2023

  • PulseCode
    PulseCode Member Posts: 131 Helper

    not sure what is involved,… hope they do it soon…

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,010 Expert
    edited April 2023

    At the moment, the only workaround is “scaling” down your monitors resolution while you use the computer to make music with those plugins.

    Having 4k monitors doesn’t mean you ALWAYS have to use them at 4k ☺️

    By doing that, your beloved KK and NI plugins will look waaaay bigger

    The only caveat is that in this way, you’ll lose the 4k for other plugins /DAWs that support it.

    In any case I agree and a resolution revamp of NI products is more than due, but seeing how many times this request has been done (and ignored), it seems it is a too difficult task for them

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,488 Expert
    edited April 2023

    If you are on Mac there’s also ctrl + mouse wheel

    Windows I believe also has several ways to zoom in or scale the display

    Not perfect but better than nothing as a hopefully temp workaround and then you don’t have to change your display resolution settings all at once

    There’s also this tool:

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/11847/nipatcher-tool-to-modify-komplete-kontrol-macos#latest

  • PulseCode
    PulseCode Member Posts: 131 Helper

    That's what I had to do, instead of using 4k with @150% windows scaling use 2560X1140 on both monitors.

    Will work for now, even though, now I have 2 , 2k monitors lol.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,010 Expert

    In any case, 4k for music making is quite overpowered. Unless you have a special DAW using ray tracing and deep shadowing 😂

    Joking… I admit this should be addressed by NI, but at least, while we wait for them, we have a workaround to avoid making our eyes worst (since I think we’ll have to deal with this for a long time…NI is ignoring these requests from a loooong time)

  • PulseCode
    PulseCode Member Posts: 131 Helper

    NI folks please fix it.... it's 2023 get with the program.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro

    Can't see how/why any vendor would invest any time on this until 4K monitors (and their critical resolution spec) become the lowest common dominator worldwide on all computing platforms.

    Right now (and for the foreseeable future) a resolution of 1920x1080 is the worldwide standard for probably 99.99% of all apps across all domains. As long as your monitor can handle this resolution - you should be good.

    For 4K to ever be a "thing" - not only must every user have a 4K capable monitor - every single plugin one has must fully support 4K alongside the DAW application and the OS etc.

    Even if Komplete Kontrol was 4K capable - if I had to keep switching my display adapters around to take advantage of a 4K resolution for KK and then these other two plugins in my session do not (and maybe will never) support 4K - is pointless.

    One will drive themselves insane switching resolutions all day long. No thanks.

    VP

  • PulseCode
    PulseCode Member Posts: 131 Helper

    @Vocalpoint we are talking about scaling here not 4k in particular, UI is outdated, stop milking the same old cow, I say. Point stands, NI, get with the program! please! and yes I am a software developer.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro

    @PulseCode

    You are missing the true point here.

    I am NOT running a 4K monitor - nor will I ever until such time that the "world" chooses to conform (or not) - to coding, developing and sizing ALL standard day to day software to display correctly in that specific resolution (2,160 pixels tall and 3,840 wide).

    The point is - in standard 1920x1080 - KK does NOT require scaling. It looks great. And if the bulk of us are running in this specific res 100% of the time - it's not "broken" (in my opinion) nor is there any need "to get with the program" either.

    And I am 100% certain that you can certainly run day to day in 1920x1080 (and use KK like the rest of us) but instead you choose not to.

    But because you choose not to - does not mean NI (or any vendor quite frankly) should suddenly drop what they are doing and completely rebuild a critical piece of their software just to appease the 2% of users who feel they need to justify that 4K monitor purchase by running in a vastly different res every day when they know full well that 90+% of the commercial software out there is simply not scalable. Especially complex UIs like we see in the VST/VSTi world.

    That said - would it be cool if KK was scalable? Sure - and maybe NI will consider this some day.

    Until then...

    VP

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 369 Pro
    edited May 2023

    The notion that the majority of home PC users are still stuck at 1080p screens is outlandish. What about the ubiquitous 27” at 2560x1440? What about 34” ultra wides at 3440x1440? Those screens are everywhere, they are cheap and popular, at least in Western countries. I am running 49” at 5120x1440, not 4K and everything from NI is looking microscopic…

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro
    edited May 2023


    I do not think I said "stuck'. The majority of PC users have no issue with any of these scaling topics since they do not need to scale anything because their default IS 1080p.

    The bulk of users do not care or probably do not even give a thought about what resolution they are at - if it looks good and it works - they carry on. Most (if not all) software vendors design for this default minimum standard and as difficult as it may be to wrap your mind around it - that is the reality.

    And - the prevalence of cool hardware has been the norm for decades but still means nothing in terms of available software. I can buy a $20000.00 8K TV at a shop in town here this afternoon and still only find exactly 2 4K TV channels here in Calgary AB (pop 1.5 million). And exactly zero 8K streaming movies or BluRays (if that is still a thing).

    Should I complain to Hollywood asking where my 8K streamer of Top Gun Maverick is and how long do I have to wait because I just dropped 20K on this new TV?

    Just because some company ships an "ultra wide" does not mean every software app out there will conform to 3440x1440 (and size/scale/look properly sized) on screen.

    Cool, bleeding edge hardware is ALWAYS easy to find - software to perfectly match that capability - almost impossible (in a lot of cases).

    VP

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 369 Pro
    edited May 2023

    For TV sets, the default is 4K, period. Not going to go into TV broadcasting discussions as those are irrelevant to music production (we have free BBC 4K channel here in UK and few others), but Netflix, Disney, Amazon Prime and Apple TV+ all stream in 4K (for majority of content). 8K TV will upscale 4K content just fine, if you are inclined to be at the bleeding edge of progress and buy one ;)

    Windows is scalable and HiDPI aware. The whole point of higher resolution is to have more space on screen, to open several apps at once or to have one app full screen (i.e. DAW) with bigger timeline, etc.

    Contrary to your belief, almost all plug-in vendors have scalable interfaces for their plugins (I dare to wonder why they bother if 1080p is golden standard). NI is an exception from this, unfortunately.

    Not sure what you are referring to in regards of software compatibility with hi-res screens. Perhaps you could give some examples of PC software not compatible with for example 2560x1440 or 3440x1440 resolution?

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 674 Pro
    edited May 2023

    I did not say anything was non compatible for any screen (regardless of resolution) Of course anyone can fire up Komplete Kontrol 2.9.1 on an 4K/8K monitor and then break out your magnifying glass. Or change that 4K monitor to display in 1080p and all is good. But no one wants to even consider that.

    And yes - I get it. More stuff on screen = good. Less stuff = not good.

    But let's get real - there is no software app/plugin/instrument (That I am aware of) that will open on ANY screen with a resolution higher than 1080p and auto scale itself to be "the exact right size for your eyes" like KK does on my 1080p screen right now.

    I run all machines here at 1080 standard for everything - and everything I fire it up - regardless of what app it is - I can see it perfectly - I do not need to fiddle with anything and I carry on. This is what I am talking about.

    But for this HiDPI "nirvana" to happen (properly, seamlessly and without ANY user adjustments to hardware) with ALL software for ALL resolutions (even with Windows doing it's HiDPI job correctly - which still leaves much to be desired in certain scenarios) - the entire software industry would need to rewrite everything to fit/comply with every possible screen res, monitor or video card.

    How realistic do you think that is?

    VP

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 369 Pro
    edited May 2023

    I get what you saying, mate. I mostly even agree with you. Office and general computing is still predominantly 1080p. Multimedia production, not really. For video, one would rather have 4K screen as most content is now being produced at 4K, for audio - bigger timeline, ability to see more tracks at once are very important.

    Now if we change resolution of 6K, 5K or 4K screen (or use HiDPI), to 1080p - NI plugins will look good, but all other GUI elements in DAW will look huge and we will loose screen estate, we will see less of timeline and less tracks at once. All that sacrifice because of NI not doing their job, I don't think so.

    Going back to what you've said - no one is thinking about plugins fitting to every possible resolutions automatically. Just a few skin options: let's say "normal" for 1080p, "bigger" for 1440p and "huge" for 2160p. Not even vectorised graphics, just 3 sets of bitmap skins. It's THAT simple (with properly maintained codebase) that literally everyone except NI has already done that.

    Just the plugin vendors I use: AAS, Synapse Audio, Rob Papen, reFX, Lennar Digital, U-He, Spectrasonics, Plogue, KORG, TAL Software, IK Multimedia - all have either vectorised (scalable) interfaces or sets of 3-4 skins in different sizes. It's obviously doable.

    And then you have Komplete Kontrol, where users were begging NI for years to just make the main window and fonts bigger. And it was sooo difficult for NI that one day our D-One just made some alterations to plain XML config files (and later made those into an app) and suddenly it turned out that it was possible without any coding from NI side, they just didn't bother to do it.

    So forgive the frustration :)

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