Status on m1/m2 update?

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  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 707 Guru
    edited August 2022

    Apple aside, the amount of technological debt NI has accumulated over the years beggars belief.

    I’m not a developer, but they cannot fix even the simplest problems, like resizing the window in KK, not even saying anything about providing HiDPI or VST3 compatibility on ANY supported platform.

    M1 is a new thing for sure, but HiDPI and VST3 were a sport long before Apple even thought about making their own processors. VST3 specification is I think at least 10 years old by now…

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,325 Guru

    I strongly disagree with these statements again. I see it as a matter of short term vs long term. And I do think Apple's motivations are complex and do account for the user accordingly. Their long term success is tied to user satisfaction. There will be other competitive choices for brain/sensory ecosystems.

    How devices factor into our daily lives will be far different going forward than the 2000-2020 era.

    This will bring a sea change in all life endeavors... including music creation on all levels.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    @Maciej Repetowski

    NI has most of plugins also as VST3....

    I am not fan of building PCs. I made 1st one myself after 40 years of using computers... Generally it is not any magic, one clicks few items to appropriate slots. Lego is more complicated, than this....

    Apple is fancy, it makes nice looking HW. Nothing bad about it. It is more status thing than anything more. Bad experience with PC platform is mainly due to the fact, that PC costing 150-200$ has many compromises that might bring problems... PC costing 1000+$ has more than decent quality...

  • inmazevo
    inmazevo Member Posts: 25 Helper
    edited August 2022

    I'm personally quite happy that Apple is now going to be a unified platform across their devices.

    Meaning: one of the things I don't like, if comparing to Windows 'tablets' is that my favorite software on my desktop/laptop won't run on my iPad. Buzz-kill. Photoshop, which I use religiously, and Word/Excel, which I use out of necessity, just suck to me on iPad. Ugh. I hate them there. So I don't use them there, even though there are many times I'd much rather grab a tablet than take out the laptop.

    Over time I expect this to now become easier, albeit with screen-size and tablet interface 'restrictions.' Even for the developers. This lowers the threshold from 3 'platforms' (x86 Win, x86 Mac, ARM Mac/iOS) down to 2. If I were a dev... oh wait... I'd prefer it.

    Time will tell on that one though.

    Besides: it's been 15+ years since a major 'platform' overhaul on the Mac side, to something that works better for their overall infrastructure. I'm fine with it.

    Nothing wrong with not liking it either.

    I think what's going on with NI is deeper than M1 though. The stuff from 2019 has ramifications. Joining 'collectives' feels needy. Seeing FM8 for $10 on plugin boutique feels down-right worrisome (it's done, I think, as is probably Absynth and maybe even original Massive). Now your there with A.I.R. and iZotope's old stuff and instruments, and even Waves to a slightly lesser extent. Not good.

    But I do think Reaktor is fine. Roll out Kontakt first, given it's bread-and-butterness (plus no-doubt existing contractual agreements with vendors); then roll out Reaktor since half of your Komplete line depends on it; then probably Guitar Rig since they're clearly still working on it.

    I could see everything else get dropped entirely from real future updates. It'll work on Windows until they release an incompatible OS (and they do), and it'll work with Rosetta and Intel Macs until they release an incompatible OS (and granted, Apple OS's move more frequently than they used to, which is a flip, as for a while there Windows was just all-over the place and Apple was the consistent one).

    Ugh. $10 for FM8 on plugin boutique. Sigh

  • inmazevo
    inmazevo Member Posts: 25 Helper

    Just a curiosity: do NI plugins work WITHOUT emulation on Windows ARM machines?

    Curious as to whether they do. I have no idea, as I don't have one

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 707 Guru

    Not sure if anyone tried this. ARM Windows has its own emulation layer to run x86 programs, from what I’ve heard it’s much less efficient than Apple’s Rosetta 2.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    I do not know if MS layer or Apple's is better.... I would not be surprised if the both are based on the same 3rdparty code...

    Definitelly x86 code needs Rosetta like layer to run on ARM Windows. I do not know if it works satisfactory as who would want to run decent application on ARM under Win.... That is task for early adopters who like kids games...

    Developing for Win, iPad and Mac is still developing for three platforms despite the fact iPad and Mac are on ARM. They have different user interface... And I would not do the same application for iPad and for Mac. One costing 30 USD and the other 300 USD. Mainly if iPad app may be run on Mac...

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,325 Guru

    Think subscription service instead of app purchase, and the concept of $30 vs $300 is irrelevant.

    Users will access the creative ecosystem with whatever device is handy at the time and/or suited for the task at hand.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    But still would be subscription for IPad and Mac cost the same? I doubt it.... Prices for iPad are settled way down comparing to Mac/PC....

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,325 Guru

    The subscription cost would be the same... it's all one creative environment that you'd have access to. You might use an iPad in the morning for some tasks... and a desktop later in the day for some other creative interaction. Or an VR headset for some other shaping of a project.

    It's all about exploring/refining creative ideas by whatever method suites the time, place and task at hand.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    Yes, it would work for person that wants use it on Mac/PC and also iPad/android. But it would not for someone who wants only iPad/android.

  • Ed M
    Ed M Member Posts: 152 Advisor

    If a company develops apps or VST's that are supposed to work on Windows and MacOS they should make sure their stuff keeps working on those OS's over time. It shouldn't matter if a change in any OS is a big or small one.

    It think it is fair to say that NI is taking a really really long time to tackle the AS situation. My main gripe on the matter is communication. After a whole bunch of threads on this topic in the past 2 years, pretty much the best we got is "we're working on it", or "our products will be AS supported soon/this year"

    And yes, luckily Kontakt already got native AS support. Probably not thanks to NI users begging for it, but because major industry leading VST's rely on Kontakt (I guess). If NI dragged any longer it could quite well be that those companies would drop NI as their partner.

    So please NI, communicate better, at least to end or temper these pointless flame wars on this forum. Even bad news is often better than no news at all.

    Instead of emailing me new product releases or promo's literally every week, get this AS situation sorted and keep your users better informed on the state of affairs. This will not make you any money short term, but could help winning customers for the long term.

    Your software and hardware was and is top notch, and quite a few of your newer releases are quite innovating, but before spending my money I prefer being guaranteed those products to be supported decently in the future, on my OS of choice (and not needing to wait for 2 years every time).

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,325 Guru

    It would work fine for someone with only those devices.

    There is a difference between budget driven consumer choice and device driven consumer choice.

    They are not mutually exclusive.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,325 Guru

    And another device to access the creative ecosystem:

    In a research note, Kuo reiterated that Apple plans to announce its long-rumored mixed-reality headset during an event in January 2023. The company's first AR/VR headset is expected to cost upwards of $2000, making it a niche product. As a result, Kuo says shipments of the device are unlikely to exceed 1.5 million units in 2023.

    In May, Apple presented its AR/VR headset to Apple board members, indicating that the device is nearing its final stages before launch. Despite having worked on the headset for several years, recent problems during development related to overheating and performance have delayed the launch of the product.

    The headset is expected to be powered by a chip with on-par performance to the M1 Pro in the 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro. 

    The headset will feature more than a dozen cameras for tracking hand movements, two ultra-high-resolution 8K displays and advanced eye-tracking technology. Renders shared by The Information last year offered us a look at the potential design of the headset. 

    Apple is already reportedly working on the second-generation version of its AR/VR headset. According to Kuo, the new model of the headset will launch in the first half of 2025, alongside a cheaper and more affordable model.

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