Anybody bought second hand units and received user and password?

Bronxio · June 3

Hi! I'm thinking about purchasing a second hand Maschine Mikro Mk3. My friends have Maschine Mk3 with the v2 of the software, and I would like to have this for now (I know I can purchase the rest of the samples and instruments apart to get the same with Mikro than with the normal version).

However, I'm sure that most of vendors will find so confusing / tedious to transfer me their licenses. So, my question is: if they give me their NI user and password, it would be ok to transfer from there to my own NI account the licenses, right?

Thanks in advance.

LostInFoundation · June 4

I’m sure in many cases if you explain the seller how to do it and that they will not lose the software and that both you and him will have it in yours account, you will find people willing to do it (in the end it is just about a couple of clicks on a website and then waiting a couple of days for NI to answer (in some cases it’s even faster, almost immediate).

That said… if you find someone willing to give you his credentials (maybe changing the password beforehand so that it will not be similar to anything else they use) so that you will do the job, nobody else can tell you or him what you can or cannot do.

In my opinion it’s easier to explain the procedure and that they will keep the software than to find someone giving you his credentials. If someone, knowing how easy it is and that will keep the software, answers you they will not do it anyway, probably he will not even give you his credentials. And maybe he has something to “hide” (he doesn’t own the license too?)

D-One · June 6

I actually had to do this with my first Maschine ever, (Studio). I bought it from a DJ friend, who is not really a techy person, he had no idea how to transfer and it was taking forever… So I just told him to change his pass to something temporary and give it to me, and I handled it. This was only feasible because we know each other.

None of the above has any relation to "sharing" accounts in the sense of avoiding paying for a product; there's nothing shady about it, this is mine and my friends business… He got the money, I got the SW+HW, all good… And yeah, no one knew.

Obviously, no seller who has other products in their account will want to do that as you would have the power to just transfer everything to yourself. For the protection of the seller, no one should ever do this.

My suggestion is:

1 - Try to buy in person if possible, handle the transfer right then.
2 - If online, then message the seller first and ask if it comes with the software license and if they have a Transfer ID Code ready, if they dont and are smart they will start the process because they want to sell it ASAP. Messages are proof on ebay so in the case the seller goes IMA after you pay you can use the proof to dispute a refund/return.

PK The DJ · June 3

Nobody should be giving their username and password to other people.

The license transfer process is covered on the support pages. The seller needs to follow the procedure, which does not include sharing their username or password.

Bronxio · June 3

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/229399#Comment_229399

I know that. But I don't believe everyone who purchased second-hand NI stuff received a transfer code as well. I guess it will take several days to get it, and depends 100% on seller's good will.

That's why I wonder how people managed to solve this when the seller doesn't make the process.

Take into account that some people would create the NI account exclusively for one NI product, and no real info could be entered.

mykejb · June 4

Your friend could give you the account details, but then you'd need to transfer the licence from their account to yours, at which point they might as well do it for you. That's assuming they're giving you the licence, which means they don't have it anymore unless they're transferring the hardware.

If you're just using the licence on their account rather than transferring it to yours that's against the licence agreement as it's a personal licence, not shared. Don't forget, you can't combine accounts, so if you log into Native Access using their account the products that you already own won't be available, but you'll have access to all they products on their account.

As PK says, the procedure for licence transfer needs to be followed and if the seller won't give you the transfer ID then I'd suggest buying elsewhere.

Bronxio · June 4

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/229428#Comment_229428

Thank you, but I'm afraid there are several misunderstandings here. Let's go by parts:

Your friend could give you the account details (…)

I just said that my friends have Maschine with Maschine software v2: this is because I want to be able to share project files with them, not account details. Because if I purchase a brand new Maschine Mikro nowadays, the software will be v3 and I can open projects from v2, but when I save them, my friends won't be able to open them.

If you're just using the licence on their account rather than transferring it to yours that's against the licence agreement as it's a personal licence, not shared.

I want to purchase a second hand Maschine Mikro Mk3 with the license to any seller on selling platforms, and this includes the transfer of the license to my own account. I don't want to use Native Access with other person's account.

As PK says, the procedure for licence transfer needs to be followed and if the seller won't give you the transfer ID then I'd suggest buying elsewhere.

In an ideal world, that will be the case in 100% of cases. But knowing that some people bought second-hand NI products without license, I know for sure that:

not all sellers know about the license transfer need (or don't care), and
not all buyers know that, if they don't get the code to transfer licenses, they'll need to purchase the software apart (nowadays at least possible with Maschine thanks to the new v3, before it was impossible!)

So, if a seller tells me that they won't do the transfer process, they'll wait until a buyer that doesn't know they need that code will fall in the trap and will get just a partial midi controller, instead of a full Maschine product.

This is why I'm asking if there was any case where someone bought a second-hand Maschine product, the seller gave its user and password (because he used that account for nothing else than activating Maschine) and was able to transfer to thyself.

PK The DJ · June 4

No, as already explained, nobody should be giving anybody else their personal login details!

You should not ask for that, you should not expect that.

The same applies to any username and password, not just for Native Instruments. How can you possibly be thinking that's OK? 🤔

As the buyer, it's your responsibility to make sure the seller will transfer the license correctly. If necessary, ask them. If they refuse, don't buy from them.

LostInFoundation · June 4

I’m sure in many cases if you explain the seller how to do it and that they will not lose the software and that both you and him will have it in yours account, you will find people willing to do it (in the end it is just about a couple of clicks on a website and then waiting a couple of days for NI to answer (in some cases it’s even faster, almost immediate).

That said… if you find someone willing to give you his credentials (maybe changing the password beforehand so that it will not be similar to anything else they use) so that you will do the job, nobody else can tell you or him what you can or cannot do.

In my opinion it’s easier to explain the procedure and that they will keep the software than to find someone giving you his credentials. If someone, knowing how easy it is and that will keep the software, answers you they will not do it anyway, probably he will not even give you his credentials. And maybe he has something to “hide” (he doesn’t own the license too?)

Bronxio · June 4

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/229514#Comment_229514

Thanks. I would prefer finding someone that will do the standard process, yes. But I know because of Serato cases that some sellers prefer to give their credentials (they don't want to write Serato Support for some reason). So wanted to know in case they tell me "what about giving my credentials?" after explaining them that they have to contact NI to get a transfer code after X time (some selling platforms don't allow sharing links, so it will be more difficult for them). Because if I say no, I guess I will lose the offer (and surely several days until I find a seller on my town who accept to do the whole process, I can check it before paying, etc.)

I hope NI will adapt the hardware unlocking system some day, as Serato and Rekordbox did for some models. The license way has not only this, but also if Native Access doesn't work for some reason, you can't activate licenses that you already own. This is my case with the Z2 and Traktor SP 2 in a computer with Windows 8.1.

And thank you for being polite 👍️ I appreciate it!

Cheers

PK The DJ · June 4

"nobody else can tell you or him what you can or cannot do"

Honestly, you're openly posting on Native Instruments forum, in full view of everyone, suggesting that it's fine to be sharing login details of NI accounts?

😯

ozon · June 5

I‘ve encountered this lax attitude of sharing NI accounts. Many seem to not understand that they are risking their licenses and may end up in court because of allowing shared access of licenses.

LostInFoundation · June 5

Honestly: neither me nor OP ever talked about “sharing an account” illegally or said that it’s fine.

So… yes, I’m “openly posting on Native Instruments forum, in full view of everyone” answering what an user asked. And, I’m also “suggesting that it's fine to be GIVING login details of NI accounts”. Which is not the same thing as sharing the account and using products one never paid for.
If someone wants to give his credentials of anything he wants to someone, he is free to do it. What can’t be done is using the products.

If someone wants to sell his account with all his products, he is also free to do it.

What can’t be done is selling the account and continue using it both.

But OP NEVER said anything like this: he specified 2 possible options:

The seller has only the sold product(s) in his account and sell all of it to the buyer. Then the buyer could also change the password and block seller from accessing it (or, simply, the seller will not use it anymore on his own)
The seller trusts the buyer, allows him to access his account to make the license transfer on another account and then, probably changes his password so that the buyer will not be able to access it anymore in the future. Or, simply, once again, the buyer will not use it anymore on his own

Both of this options are not against any rule.

It’s just a matter of trust between seller and user. Native Instruments has nothing to do with all of this.

Unless they decide to make something else than what expressed in the questions OP asked (namely using both the same account and sharing the programs). But, luckily, Minority Report is just a novel, and condemning somebody based on what they COULD do but they haven’t in facts done is not possible.

If they will do it, and only in that case, you are right.

As said, the fact that some of you thought about the “illegal” sharing has nothing to do with what OP asked or said.

You know… in this world some honest people still exist.

ozon · June 5

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/company/legal-information/end-user-license-agreement/

3.6 Third Parties

a) Renting or lending the licensed Software to a third party is expressly forbidden.

b) Except if otherwise stated within this EULA, Licensee may resell the software to a third party or transfer the software permanently free of charge, provided the third party agrees in writing with this EULA and Licensee ceases all use of the software, completely removes all installed copies of the software from its computer and – if the software was not purchased via download – deletes or transfers the original data storage to the third party (if Licensee is not obliged to a longer storage by law). In addition, Licensee is required to de-register the purchased software with Native Instruments. Following respective request from Licensee via its email address registered with Native Instruments, the serial number of the Product will be transferred by Native Instruments to the third party, and at the same time the registration of Licensee for the software purchased will be deleted.

LostInFoundation · June 5

None of this says that someone can’t access someone else’s account, always intending that 2 users are not using the same programs.

Nor that an account can’t be sold.

Only thing said, and that I also said, is that original Licensee must cease all use of the software in case he sells it

ozon · June 5

No, the highlighted parts state:

The new user (third party) has to inform NI about agreeing with the EULA.
The previous licensee has to contact NI to de-register the software.
The license has to be transferred by NI from the previous licensee to the new licensee.

The licensee is not an account on the NI website but a real person. NI needs to know the real person behind the e-mail address to hand out the license.

A license is a (temporary) contract between two legal entities, which regulates how one entity (licensee) may use property belonging to the other entity.

LostInFoundation · June 5

In my opinion, those are all points explicating what happens when doing a license transfer.

I could be wrong.

In any case, my point still stands: OP was not trying to do anything illegal: first thing he asked is if he could, having access to seller’s account, do himself the “work” of the license transfer of the sold item to his account and if anyone had a similar experience.

And this case falls exactly in all of the above mentioned points.

What I said was: if you both agree, no one can tell you what you can or cannot do.

The whole point about OP wanting to do something illegal or sharing an account to cheat NI is an invention, seen the infos he gave us

D-One · June 6

I actually had to do this with my first Maschine ever, (Studio). I bought it from a DJ friend, who is not really a techy person, he had no idea how to transfer and it was taking forever… So I just told him to change his pass to something temporary and give it to me, and I handled it. This was only feasible because we know each other.

None of the above has any relation to "sharing" accounts in the sense of avoiding paying for a product; there's nothing shady about it, this is mine and my friends business… He got the money, I got the SW+HW, all good… And yeah, no one knew.

Obviously, no seller who has other products in their account will want to do that as you would have the power to just transfer everything to yourself. For the protection of the seller, no one should ever do this.

My suggestion is:

1 - Try to buy in person if possible, handle the transfer right then.
2 - If online, then message the seller first and ask if it comes with the software license and if they have a Transfer ID Code ready, if they dont and are smart they will start the process because they want to sell it ASAP. Messages are proof on ebay so in the case the seller goes IMA after you pay you can use the proof to dispute a refund/return.

Anybody bought second hand units and received user and password?

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