S61 mk3 controlling 3rd party plug in ProTools?

hornedrum
hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member
in Komplete General

Hi,

This is my first, so please be gentle!

Just bought an S61 Mk3, plugged directly into a MBP M4 Max, using latest version of ProTools.

I have Kontakt working fine, but is there a way to control 3rd party plugs (in particular, PrimalTap by Soundtoys because it's so hands on) to be controlled by the S61?

ie Mapping the main controls of that plugin to the 8 rotary controllers on the S61?

I have searched here and generally, most posts refer to Komplete Kontrol, which I am guessing is not necessary for Mk3 keyboards now?

Any help gratefully appreciated, and sorry if it's an obvious "No. it can't be done".

Cheers,

HD

Best Answers

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,732 mod
    edited May 24 Answer ✓

    Check out the NKS User Library. You will find ready mapped plugins including all the Soundtoys

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 723 Guru
    edited May 25 Answer ✓

    One thing to remember is that as ProTools is on a list of DAW integration for Mk3, the default mode for Mk3 in ProTools will be DAW controller (mixer). You need to switch to midi mode on a keyboard in order to midi learn anything. It won’t automatically change into midi mode by itself.

    Virtually all 3rd party plugins support midi learn, so I think your problem has something to do with controller’s DAW mode versus midi mode in ProTools. I’m afraid I can’t help much more as I do not use ProTools.

    Unless you want to midi learn the stock DAW plugins (those provided by ProTools - EQ, Delay, etc), then those might not have midi learn. In Logic Pro (which I use), you can midi learn anything, including DAW interface itself.

    With 3rd party plugins, either there’s a menu somewhere with midi learn options or you need to right click on the control you wish to learn and then move an encoder on a controller or press a button.

«1

Answers

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,732 mod
    edited May 24 Answer ✓

    Check out the NKS User Library. You will find ready mapped plugins including all the Soundtoys

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks Kymela, do these work with aax plugs on ProTools? It only mentions VST thus far…

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,732 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/227838#Comment_227838

    Komplete Kontrol only loads VST and VST3 plugins

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks,

    So there is no way of controlling a 3rd party plugin in ProTools like a delay with S61 Mk3 then?

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 723 Guru
    edited May 24

    Of course it is. You need to create MIDI template and midi learn the CC messages within the plugin.

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks Maciej, much appreciated.

    Could you break it into a few steps for me please?

    Or any links would be greatly appreciated.

    ie Do I have to have the S61 setup in peripherals inside ProTools as a controller, or not?

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 723 Guru
    edited May 25
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/227854#Comment_227854

    Sure. First of all, you need to have your S61 properly configured in ProTools as a midi controller. Then you need to create a midi template on the keyboard itself. When you press SETTINGS/MIDI, you will have default midi template with all CCs already assigned to encoders and buttons. You can start with this or create your own. KK61 can have basically hundreds of midi templates for different synths or FX plugins, you can name them all and/or have a background picture for each one displayed on keyboard’s screen when it is invoked.

    Then, having a midi template selected on your keyboard, instantiate the plugin, every plugin has a midi learn function, you need to activate this, select the virtual knob, slider or button in a plugin and then rotate the encoder or press the button on Mk3 - it will be learned. Once you mapped the whole plugin (or subset of its controls), you can name the controls in midi template, name and save the template on the keyboard itself and then make another midi template for another plugin.

    Another way, which has been suggested already, is to use NKS templates (either community made or ones made by yourself) and to use NI KOMPLETE Kontrol plugin as a wrapper (invoke your plugin inside KOMPLETE Kontrol, instead of invoking it directly in your DAW).

    There is a huge thread on this forum with community made NKS templates on this forum and another one with community made MIDI templates, just use search function.

    Hope that helps

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks so much Maciej, much appreciated. I can get things working in Komplete Kontrol, all good, S61 can make changes to parameters, thanks.

    I have no midi learn button on ANY plugins though, it's like the keyboard can't even see them on a track. I Tried just about every plug I have, nothing working

    MIDI Learn button is there if I have the Command8 control surface as a peripheral, but disappear if I delete it from prefs and change to Komplete Kontrol as my controller.

    There is something strange going on here, I have to reboot the keyboard because of glitches sometimes too. I can't get back to DAW mode etc

    Is there a driver I can reinstall for the S61? Or should I be deleting prefs in protools? Just to reset and see if problems persist?

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 723 Guru
    edited May 25 Answer ✓

    One thing to remember is that as ProTools is on a list of DAW integration for Mk3, the default mode for Mk3 in ProTools will be DAW controller (mixer). You need to switch to midi mode on a keyboard in order to midi learn anything. It won’t automatically change into midi mode by itself.

    Virtually all 3rd party plugins support midi learn, so I think your problem has something to do with controller’s DAW mode versus midi mode in ProTools. I’m afraid I can’t help much more as I do not use ProTools.

    Unless you want to midi learn the stock DAW plugins (those provided by ProTools - EQ, Delay, etc), then those might not have midi learn. In Logic Pro (which I use), you can midi learn anything, including DAW interface itself.

    With 3rd party plugins, either there’s a menu somewhere with midi learn options or you need to right click on the control you wish to learn and then move an encoder on a controller or press a button.

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Yeah, you're right.

    But even when I take the Mk3 out the peripherals, and run it in MIDI mode, I still can't get MIDI learn working.

    Will try another synth, got a Korg MS20ic, see if I can control plugins via MIDI that way.

    If any ProTools users know of a way to control 3rd party plugs via MIDI, please let me know.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 3,277 Expert
    edited May 25
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/45430/s61-mk3-controlling-3rd-party-plug-in-protools

    pre mapped and browsable libraries for all sound toys effects here is interested:

    https://freelancesoundlabs.com/product/id%3A5213/downloads/soundtoys/nks-library-soundtoys-5-effects-plugins/

    Of cvourse these only work for the VST effects loaded within the KK software and not the AAX plugins loaded onto a track.

    One thing we have all asked for ever since FX were supported in KK is a second KK plugin that is an effects plugin only allowing browsing and loading of NKS enabled effects, this would make it so much easier.

    Otherwise as mentioned, MIDI mapping is your only way, other than basic DAW transport and track volume control, KK only does standard midi events and nothing more.

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks Jester!

    I was playing about with KK last night, interesting stuff.

    So I am guessing Avid don't want to lose sales with control surfaces, hence the lack of ability to control plugins with anything other than S1, S3, Dock etc. My Commans8 is brilliant, but feeling like S1 is the only way for me to do this simply (as you can fully edit the parameters on plugins there)

    Heading back to the studio later, but is it possible to automate say PrimalTap wrapped in KK within ProTools. ie Can I record midi notes on that track in one pass, then go back and edit parameters to affect the sound in the second pass, recording and editing all the changes?

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    PS, where do I put this nks file to midi map the mk3 for PrimalTap plugin?

    Users>shared>NI Resources>dist_database ???

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 5,732 mod
    edited May 26
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/228051#Comment_228051

    Honestly if you want to automate the fx plugin in realtime I'd stick to MIDI learn for the params - I hate to have to say this after so many years of fighting for improvements with this but sadly NKS is still not fit for purpose when it comes to FX support as there is no dedicated FX version and you can't even automate them. At the moment it's a very instrument centric standard.

  • hornedrum
    hornedrum Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks, I'll take your word for it, saves me lots of time…. I appreciate it!

    Bummer is, I can't use the S61 to midi learn on ProTools, the only way seems to be with a current AVID control surface, and map the parameters to the pots on there.

    At this rate I would be cheaper buying the hardware Lexicon Prime Time and using it as a hardware insert, haha! (PrimalTap was modelled on it).

    Thanks for everyone's help, You made it much easier for a newb. I'll keep using the S61 for everything Kontakt, and decide between a hardware delay and an Avid S1.

    What a dilemma :(

Back To Top

Categories