PSU or Cable Issue with S61N MK3

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Mike Bowen
Mike Bowen Member Posts: 4 Member
in Komplete Kontrol

I am a bit frustrated.

Purchased a S61 Mk3 and had a lot of issues simply getting the keyboard to get passed the update. The issue related to not enough power on USB C port. So I connected a PSU to the power socket and OK - overcame the issue. This took a day of my time.

I have not used it for a while, so it needed an update. PSU attached, separate data cable (as in box), but I am back to Update Failing and a trying the recommended actions - but it just keeps failing. A further 2 hours of time and no solution.

Can NI please specify a USB C Hub with PSU that meets their recommendations (that can be ordered on Amazon), for use in the UK. Then I can eliminate POWER from the reasons for failure.

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Best Answer

  • Mike Bowen
    Mike Bowen Member Posts: 4 Member
    Answer ✓

    The USB C Hub I ordered from Amazon is below. When connected to a USB C port on the PC, with the supplied Host cable in the S61 box, I could update the firmware and all is fine.

    The Hub solved the issue, but only if connected to a USB C port, not an older USB Port (via the cable adapter that came with the hub).

    Connecting without the Hub to the same port, using the same cable - did not work (not enough power).

    This may well be down to something specific on my PC and that USB Port. The hub below worked for me, but I cannot say whether it will help anyone else. Note - plugged into the USB 3.2 socket at top of hub.

    I cannot say this will resolve an issue you are having, nor can I say whether the hub is high quality or not (I have only had it for 3 days). But it might point you in the right direction.

    RSHTECH Powered USB Hub, 7-Port USB C Hub Splitter with 3x 10Gbps USB 3.2 Data Ports (2C+1A), 4x 5Gbps USB 3.0 Ports (2C+2A), Aluminum USB C Multiport Adapter with 3.3ft USB C/A Long Cable

Answers

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,361 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/42311/psu-or-cable-issue-with-s61n-mk3

    Can NI please specify a USB C Hub with PSU that meets their recommendations (that can be ordered on Amazon), for use in the UK. Then I can eliminate POWER from the reasons for failure.

    I think that usually then N.I. do not endorse specific brands and hub models in public , but I can try asking @Chris_NI : do you have any comment on this ?

    Else then the I suppose that you are familiar with the troubleshooting pages ? :

    Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide

    Kontrol S-Series MK3: Troubleshooting Firmware Update Issues

    Otherwise then if Chris_NI has nothing to add then please contact N.I. Komplete Kontrol Support and ask for help .

    In case that you need guidance contacting support : Please read : how to get support !

  • nico5
    nico5 Member Posts: 109 Advisor
    edited February 9
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/42311/psu-or-cable-issue-with-s61n-mk3

    Can NI please specify a USB C Hub with PSU that meets their recommendations (that can be ordered on Amazon), for use in the UK.

    Doesn't the user manual give the specifications for the power supply on page 75?

    USB-C power supply (5 V, 7.5 W or higher, 1.5 A or higher)

    https://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downloads/manuals/komplete_kontrol/Kontrol_S_Series_MK3_Manual_English_171023.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOorzdTK_lUbEo1kiyS4-ve1BWgplQenQprwsj2Kbefd3GlaX6vFB

    The toubleshooting guide linked by @PoorFellow also contains a link specifically to a power related document, which also lists the same requirements:

    firefox_JudrdxSsfP.png

    The above screen capture is from this page:

    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/14133682267037-Kontrol-S-Series-MK3-You-re-low-on-power-Please-connect-a-USB-C-power-supply

  • Mike Bowen
    Mike Bowen Member Posts: 4 Member

    First of all, a big thank you for the advice received. It is always great to see people going out of their way to help.

    This was working, using a iPad Charger and USB cable going to the power socket, with the NI cable being used to connect to the PC. This allowed an update before and all was working. However, the same combination is not working now.

    If you search beyond the first set of support articles, it is suggested you try a USB C Hub and different cables. I work in Software / IT and would first of all want to eliminate a faulty cable, then I would be looking to eliminate an issue of incorrect power supply. Next would be - is the USB Port faulty etc.

    There is however a very big "BUT". If you start searching on USB C issues, cables and power you find a fair number of articles saying to be very careful over USB C cables, as they have different data speeds and power carrying capabilities. They also warn that some cables (likely very cheap) have caused hardware issues with the USB Port itself. As always with the Internet, you don't know whether the comments are fair and accurate, but it has certainly made me think carefully over Power and Cables.

    To try to resolve this, I ordered a USB Hub and New Cable and will see if that fixes the issue. If it does, I will publish what I did and symptoms that it fixed. Hopefully it might help others.

    Personally I would like to see NI offer an official add on that we could purchase, so that we can buy a 'known solution'.

    Thank you again.

  • Mike Bowen
    Mike Bowen Member Posts: 4 Member
    Answer ✓

    The USB C Hub I ordered from Amazon is below. When connected to a USB C port on the PC, with the supplied Host cable in the S61 box, I could update the firmware and all is fine.

    The Hub solved the issue, but only if connected to a USB C port, not an older USB Port (via the cable adapter that came with the hub).

    Connecting without the Hub to the same port, using the same cable - did not work (not enough power).

    This may well be down to something specific on my PC and that USB Port. The hub below worked for me, but I cannot say whether it will help anyone else. Note - plugged into the USB 3.2 socket at top of hub.

    I cannot say this will resolve an issue you are having, nor can I say whether the hub is high quality or not (I have only had it for 3 days). But it might point you in the right direction.

    RSHTECH Powered USB Hub, 7-Port USB C Hub Splitter with 3x 10Gbps USB 3.2 Data Ports (2C+1A), 4x 5Gbps USB 3.0 Ports (2C+2A), Aluminum USB C Multiport Adapter with 3.3ft USB C/A Long Cable
  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 1,208 Guru

    Dear OP, if something is not working correctly, you might also want to consider swapping the USB-C connector at the device-end.

    Yeah, I know that USB-C is SUPPOSED to be universal. Supposed to be.

    I have to sometimes do this in my car, for my iPhone 16 to launch Apple Carplay. And with some cables here at home, my USB-C test tool shows different lights on depending on the direction that it's plugged in at the device end.

    These cables work for me. i5Create hub (even their passive hub works for data, combined with a 10-foot USB-C cable going from the computer to the hub, then have the cable that came with the MK3 go from the hub to the MK3.

    For power, I've tried a few different USB-C cables (all of them fairly new) with an old Apple iPhone 20Watt AC adapter plugged into a common power tap designed for US voltage. They all seem to work fine, even for the firmware updates for the MK3.

    What kind of computer do you have? If you can provide your CPU, motherboard, and GPU info, it might be helpful. There are some types of computer hardware that have issues with the MK3, and I believe it's a vendor issue outside of NI's control.

  • Mike Bowen
    Mike Bowen Member Posts: 4 Member

    Hi Bif,

    Thank you for that information.

    I work in software, so whilst I am not an expert on USB and cables, I have a bit more experience than most in terms of eliminating things in a logical order.

    My keyboard is up and working, so I won't be investigating further. I put up what has worked for me here, on my PC (PC Specialist i9 custom build) - but that may not work for others.

    I believe you are correct on cables. Looking at cables for USB C, the cable can have a different power rating and different data speed rating. So I stuck with the one supplied with the S61, assuming that should be to NI's requirement as they supplied it.

    My PC's USB C Port was not providing enough power, so I used a Smartphone Charger and cable to the power port of the S61. That worked, but then stopped working.

    So, I removed the cable from the PSU port and added a USB Hub, first of all to a standard USB 3.0 socket at the back of the PC. I was hoping to eliminate the possibility of the USB C port on my PC having a fault. But that did not work. So I then tried the USB hub going into the USB C port on the front of my PC - BINGO it worked.

    My feeling is that the USB C Port on the PC was not supplying enough power on its own. When used with a Hub that issue gets resolved, but the HUB (on my PC) only works with it plugged into a USB C port on my PC (not old style USB - even though the hub supplies connections to both).

    Originally I thought - check driver - check if faulty cable - check if faulty PC USB C Port - check if PSU is faulty or not supplying enough power through the cable used (see power rating on cables).

    I got there in the end. Far from the original "plug and play" concept of USB when it was announced. Personally I would have preferred NI to have a separate PSU so things are less complicated, BUT that would lose the benefit of a SINGLE cable to connect the S61 to the PC. Now it is working, I quite like the idea of 1 cable.

    Hopefully anyone struggling, can get some benefit from this. This MIGHT be a fault on MY PC and in particular the USB C port. It might be specific to the Motherboard being used…

    The general concept of eliminating one thing at a time is key. Try the vendors suggested steps. Then consider what if the PC's Port has an issue, what if the cable is faulty…

    Fortunately most of the time, things in IT work well first time.

    Thanks again

    Mike

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,361 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/211308#Comment_211308
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/211421#Comment_211421

    Great that you got things to work 🙂 and thank you very much for sharing your findings with the forum.

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