Programming synths from M+
Comments
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@Matthewsavant you obviously have already made up your mind, but IMHO there’s much more synthesis power in the M+ than you give it credit for.
It has the Maschine internal Bass Synth, Poly Synth and various Drum Synths, and then a bunch of Effects which can be used for creative sound design (e.g. Mullholland Drive, FM, Freq Shifter, Resochord, Grain Delay). There’s Monark, which is fully programmable with an Init preset available to start from scratch. And then there are the other synths which require a preset as a starting point because they are too complex to map everything to an eighth encoder with value display paradigm. And while Massive might be an obvious get go choice, maybe you should look at Prism as it has a completely different nature.
In that M+ doesn’t offer the full computer UI experience, it takes additional effort to do some things. But the available building blocks allows to make it your own in your unique way - more than many other instruments.
Pairing it with hardware, using it for drums and as multi effect unit isn’t that bad either.
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@ozon A little side question here, but can Prism/Mikro Prism actually be used in this way on the M+?
Edit: disregard the the above… I use the user tab so much I didn't see the product listed as I had no user presets.
I have found myself with similar feelings to OP in regards to patch programmability (not sound design itself in my opinion this can still be achieved through FX and sampling techniques), and remembered Prism being mentioned on launch. So I had a look for Mikro Prism, as I figure it would be easier to program from scratch, but I couldn't actually find it to use. It does appear in my NA though 🤔0 -
Honestly, I've experienced a lot of the same motions as yourself here, and @tetsuneko has pretty much nailed it, as well as fielding my own frustration on the forum when I encountered similar seeming roadblocks to creativity.
Letting go of the image you have of it in your head will definitely help you appreciate the device more in the long term... Although, if deep programming is necessary for you, then this is probably not the device you're looking for. If you find that device, I want it yesterday.
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I really wish that the enthusiasm we had for Reaktor ports was shared by NI, as this could potentially fix so many user concerns if it was opened up and standardised.
@Matthewsavant Let's have a chat about what you feel you're missing and see if we can fill in some gaps for you. The Reaktor tinkering can be a frustrating process, but when it works... 👌
@tetsuneko did anything happen with a user forum area for us tinkerers?
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No not at all I love the Maschine as a general sound design tool…In fact it's what almost always use when I make percussion sounds from field recordings and synthesis recordings, The ease of adding effects and recording automation and best of all the drag and drop audio. Also I very much appreciate the drum synths in M+ I actually didn't even know that they were in there until after I bought it, they sound great and are very versatile. The bass synth is nearly useless in most cases the poly synth is great for basic stuff and Monark is cool for MM style stuff but like the original MM it's very limited. So it's not that I don't appreciate the Maschine as a sound design tool I love it for that when working from samples I've already recorded but what my issue is is the lack of some nice modern synths like how the Push 3 has a good combo of analog emulation and FM and Wave table and physical modeling etc..None of ableton's built in synths are incredibly deep but they are more than deep enough for the vast majority of applications…that's what I was looking forward to after hearing that M+ ran some synths natively. After finding out about how you can load a lot of reaktor ens and map everything I got excited again and I found a handful of decent ones that would work well but mapping them and getting the it to work on the M+ has not been working out..mostly because I have zero experience with reaktor and don't really know what it is that I'm missing or why one thing works and other doesn't
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I would very much appreciate that! I spent well over an hour mapping Nanowave today, I came up with a nice logical layout that worked great in Maschine software…Only to have all of the mapping completely ignored when I loaded it in M+ standalone. The main issue is my lack of experience with Reaktor, I'm basing what I'm doing solely off of Blezzbeats video which is the only one I've found that goes though this exact scenario. I managed to get the Juno60 into M+ with all my mappings but I couldn't tell you why that worked and why Nanowave didn't carry it over.
I am really suprised that there isn't a data base with a plethora of full featured and fully mapped out ready to go reaktor instruments specifically for the M+ given how long it's been out and the fact that it's the best work around to get full access to real synths and stuff.
As far as what I'm looking for specifically in my M+ I would like to get at least the basics…something akin to what the push 3 has: A couple of VA/Analog emulation synths, A nice workhorse Wavetable synth, a simple FM synth and anything beyond that would be icing on the cake…I saw the VHS emulation effect and Vocoder that would be cool, a reaktor version of microtonic was mentioned, I mean I would love to fill it with all kinds of stuff, going through the reaktor instruments in the User base there are a lot of really cool and interesting instruments and quite a few of them I can imagine being able to map them out across several pages of 8 knobs in the M+. When creating the mapping for the Nanowave today I saw that M+'s mapping is not limited to 16 pages so that opens up the door for a lot of potential.
I wouldn't even mind creating the mapping myself for a lot of the instruments and sharing them if only I understood how to properly save it so that it translated to the M+
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One of the mods said theyd be adding a "Reaktor in Maschine+" subforum but nothing came of it.. There has also been talk about adding a "Maschine+ standalone" tag for Reaktor User Library, not sure what happened with that one either..
ATM, the community thread we got is about the only thing I know of. I try to keep it up to date regarding Reaktor development on the M+. The thread should also list the process required for a Reaktor patch to load up with correct mappings in M+ standalone, the key to the mappings is making sure your patch is NKS compatible
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When creating the mapping for the Nanowave today I saw that M+'s mapping is not limited to 16 pages so that opens up the door for a lot of potential.
As you and several other users reported Maschine allowing more than 16 pages for mapping, I had to try myself, and it worked. I stopped adding pages after passing number 136. It can be accounted as "limitless" for practical use.
Sorry for the misinformation.
I guess I concluded the limit of 16 pages because Maschine only generates 16 pages when loading a VST and automatically mapping the parameters.
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You'll be happy to hear that all of those sound achievable! Would you be happy to post your current version of Nanowave in the thread Tetsuneko posted below? I would by happy to have a look at it as I'm currently back doing my own troubleshooting of ensembles, and I'm always happy to have more ensembles for M+.
I can send you the 4 operator FM synth I mapped a little bit later on today if you like? It is in the aforementioned thread somewhere but it can be tricky to negotiate these long running threads sometimes. Perhaps it's time I started uploading to the RUL from now on as I have a huge folder of potential instruments and FX to go through.
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Also @tetsuneko , I tried out your Microtonic ensemble and it is very appealing to me! Great work, and keen to see if you develop it further.
Initially I thought that it didn't work for me when I loaded it as the master volume changes to almost 0 when I change certain parameters, such as filter type. Any ideas why that might happen?
Happy to continue talks in the thread above!
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That rules man you are seriously awesome! I just grabbed the first version of Nanowave I found I don't even know if its the most current or correct it just seemed like a synth that would do well for my wavetable needs and I read that there is the possibility to load the Serum wavetables into it (although I don't know how yet) it's called "the sassoed Nanowave" I just grabbed it from the RUL. As of right now in terms of what I have working well and all mapped out it's really only the MonoFM and Juno60 . Is that the one you're talking about or is there a better FM synth?..If so I would be very happy for you to send that to me. Again I really appreciate the help here as figuring this out on my own has been an extreme headache since I don't really understand Reaktor at this point (Although I may dive more into it later).
I would be super excited to get more instruments and effects up and running on M+ standalone.. In addition to MonoFM I have also been using the Space echo reaktor user effect as well as the VHS simulation one, both are great but the control mapping does need to be cleaned up in order to make them work the best, I think I have full control over both of those effects but I'm not sure as they controls are kind of all over the place as well as the entire first page or two of mapping on both are all the weird Reaktor controls that show up when it just auto maps. I'd be happy to map them (and any other instruments) but I don't get how to my attempts have been futile thus far with the exception of the Juno60. I can run lots of other Reaktor instruments and effects but they're no good without the mapping. Is there a way to alter Maschine's mapping of Reaktor instruments that I have running that's similar to like mapping an external instrument? or does it always involve getting into the Reaktor editing as well?
Either way I very much look forward to getting this all up and running, I've been spending time just sitting down with my M+ every single day this week and making all kinds of stuff and every time I find myself wishing I had a more dynamic set of internal instruments
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oh also I’m super interested in getting the microtonic reaktor instrument up and running in the M+ I love the built in drum synths it already has but I can never get enough drum synthesis and also the built in ones seem to be critically missing a Rimshot drum synth
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It took me a while because I had to find a separate thread, but here's the Operator clone I modified with a link to the original.
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/7427/
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I checked the RUL for Nanowave and saw the serum wavetable version too! I've downloaded it to have a look at but it might take a bit of time to sort through the controls.
A function I saw in the Befaco Oneiroi module that has piqued my curiosity, is the ability to record a buffer and use the content as a wavetable. I know we could use a basic sampler to isolate a single cycle waveform, but the Maschine sampler doesn't appear to be able to create a loop that small.
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Thank you for being honest, I appreciate it because I don't want to bother others or to argue.
Sound design in general is everything just nothing about Synths but I understand what you mean and if you want that specific view to control 100% of Massive then it's not possible but getting good professional sound preset is.
I expect to get the M3.0 New initial Sound with ability to change Wave Table algorithm, Wave tables but I don't need Modulators so I didn't have any expectations or something that I can't do in Maschine Standalone Mode Sequencer and Automation with Lock States on linear Time Line playing in keyboard mode or with touch strip. I use it in all my Releases and I come up with solutions I never thought I would, different environment where everything is possible literally and simplicity is enabling for combinations of several plugins for specific FX sound Shapes ect.
Massive presets have almost if not all Wave table and Algorithm combinations and that's how I further design sounds. Access to all Envelopes makes it very useful and possibility for creating your own sounds.
I understand you if you need to control all modulators a Wave table shapes and How they will behave when you changing Every OSC Wave table and you can do everything but it's should be able to use is Standalone Mode in the next M+ with extended and better layout of the controls.
Om Commuter everything is Working and I can say it's not on Standalone because I need USB storage like every other so I can transfer files to mobile phone and go outside to listen.
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