Does the NI Forum Community Culture need a change?
Comments
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That made me LOL but that's it right. I get stuck into discussion about resource allocation and priorities internally but these are not really fruitful discussions to have here when trying to improve what we do IMO.
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Yes there is definitely an issue with the ability itself but I also wanted to say that to implement something like that is tough. I have never seen it before too.
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Nah, you don't need to stop talking here. In fact, this a perfect example of symantical issues. You see, someone thought you were talking about religion, but you weren't. It was a metaphore leading to a thesis you wrote as your opening line. I understood what you meant but things can be taken may different ways when writing. Writing is actually hard work; you have too be cautious of different interpretations and do your best to stay on topic without too much improvisation or brainstorming. There's a saying among writers, "when in doubt, reiterate". Hope this makes sense.
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@Studiowaves , It was a metaphor utilising part fact (“Aristotelian way”), and part opinion (“corroded to certain extent”) about Christian Church, second part can be described as unnecessary inflammatory.
i guess I’m “uneducated fanatic” if I find this kind of writing completely unnecessary and potentially offensive on music related forum :)
And I am myself not even a Christian…
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Personally I would fashion the forum exactly like college professors that teach English composition would. Things like your opening thesis of a paragraph. How to do your best to clearly explain the thesis in your paragraph. The clarity of a paragraph is also subjected to semantical errors on the readers part. So you really have to do your best to avoid your audiences misinterpretations of your writing. Getting the right audience is why you have a header with a question. The paragraph is perfect as it is. The ability to send a like, and respond to the post is fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any part of it. Relax, let boys be boys, not everyone is a professional writer so things are going to happen. Don't worry about it, these attitude problems are commonly associated with something completely out of your control.
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It's English composition, not many are good at it and those who are end up as lawyers. We're musicians in hear, of all different ages so you don't always have a proper audience for your questions, nor answers. It a grain of salt man.
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Alas, the language barrier is indeed impenetrable...
As my wife said, "you often go overboard and write more than necessary... no one can see your good heart or your good will, behind a screen"...
Of course, I, the idiot, didn't hear her... again... I believed again that my reason is so clear that it will be impossible to misunderstand.
But it is very disappointing (and one more proof that most humans rarely have good intentions or they just born suspicious) that after i wrote so many things and ideas and suggestions, some of you stuck on a phrase that has been used only as an example (btw i just edited that comment and removed that "hideous" expression...)! That simply confirms my belief, that the majority always chose the suspicion and the mistrust instead of the good will. Well, i refuse to be like that!
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@JesterMgee thanks for the honest reply. Respect. 🙏
Still, it is completely incomprehensible to me to understand why others could possibly feel the way you described! But i have to accept it. As i wrote, my wife agrees with you. :-( Maybe i am just a misfit Ziggy Stardust who fell to Earth. Or perhaps, too much acid in my youth... 😊 But i am really fine with that.
By the way, i am not religious, not by a long shot! I dislike all religions, though i always respect the faith of the other people. Not an atheist, just non-religious and more close to the philosophical and occultist view of Cosmos.
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@Studiowaves you are very correct and your comment is very insightful 👍️
It is something i know well, after many years on the net, yet it is still impossible to put it in practice... i just can't shut my mouth up and follow the stream...
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@Maciej Repetowski i was clearly referring hypothetically to those few (if they exist at all!) who are really fanatics and not to you obviously. If you always take things personally, we will always focus on the wrong subjects. When i wrote my first comment here, i clearly declared:
In advance, i can tell you that i have no intention to offend anyone, so whatever you may read, please do not take it personally. It is just my experience from life and the different way that i use words, because English is not my mother language.
Exactly to avoid similar situations! I have nothing against you or any one else from this conversation with the exception of the one who wrote an insulting comment. Instead, many times in the past, i have read interesting and nice things from you and expressed my support with a like or an answer.
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Anyway, to end this story, and since it is impossible for me to express my self in a common way, i will stop commenting at all. It will be very helpful, if you please avoid to tag me or refer to me for confrontational or disagreement reason, unless if you have something positive or creative to say or unless you are admin/mod or one of my friends here.
Also, after the end of this month participation, i would like to be removed from a future leader board participation, if this is technically possible. If not, i will have to continue, willingly or not. I love that kind of games and i found them very refreshing and also essential for a larger participation on any kind of forum but since some people have problem with them, i will give the good example first, once more. It was never about the price or the reward, it was always about the game itself and the proof to oneself: "yes, i can do it"!
I will continue to answer and to helping users at least in the sectors i know well and love, the NKS, the Reaktor and the Traktor mostly, and i will go back to my music and all my other projects that i left orphaned, because of this forum.
By the way, it is really annoying that no one is responding to this insulting and rude comment.
I wish you a happy new year once more. 🙏
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Feelings+reactions caused by an OP being able to move posts from their thread to a collective Soap Box would not be a "problem" of this theoretical forum design, but rather a "feature".
It would be fundamental to the concept of a forum possibly having a self-correcting thread valuation.
Unhealthy pockets of self-indulgence and/or toxicity would perhaps either wither and die or quickly burnout.
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I have no awareness of any forum having an ability for an OP to move posts from their thread to a collective Soap Box.
I was just ruminating on how to leverage human behavior in some sort of way that organically "refined" each thread to the OP's intent and also let others quickly see it's value or lack thereof.
Would be interesting to see how it played out in reality...
Reading through one big collective Soap Box of moved posts would be a bizarre rabbit-hole of noise.
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The problem of the “tones of data” is that they are analyzed by human beings. And if the type of analysis made is the same as the one that brought to the release of a new version of KK with so many steps back, the EOL of KK S series 1, the decision to not implement Maschine integration in the new keyboard…I’m not so sure the way those tones of data are analyzed by NI is the same their users will use. That said…I understand that for a company an user buying a keyboard and leaving it collecting dust or using only a fragment of its capabilities is equal to a power user, since the amount of cash coming in is the same…but I’m almost sure that those same “happy users” will not be so happy anymore once they will start to see the contributions of power users like @Kymeia, @JesterMgee, @Vagus, @Christos Adamos, @Sunborn and all the others in the NKS department fall apart. And this will mean more work to do for NI to keep also those users happy. And probably at that point also the tones of data that will be collected will start to look a little bit different.
If the majority is not using the deeper editing possibilities of KK (and those are the guys from where the collected data come from) probably is also because those power users I mentioned before did it for them, and all they had to do is to download (or buy) the “ready to use” product that those users made available for them. This, e.g., is something that a bunch of collected data will never underline. But is something that is really important, imo.
This is what I meant by “value what we have”. If I had the luck to have such a dedicated community doing work that increase the value of my products, I would at least try to listen to them, specially if what they are asking for is not the moon, but at least to not step back the capabilities of what was already in use.
Same is valid for the forum: if the users are in some way helping support to not be even more overwhelmed by helping one another giving solutions even in a forum that was not meant as a support, that is in my opinion something to value.
Same as before: probably the data you can collect will tell you the VASTE majority of users coming here never helped anyone else. Because a bunch of others made it for them. And that’s why this forum has so many members: because it’s so useful thanks to a bunch of guys. But this will not be in the collected data.
Of course these are only points of view: for someone they could be part of the solution, it’s a pity if they are seen just as a way to get stuck into discussions that are not fruitful
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If the majority is not using the deeper editing possibilities of KK (and those are the guys from where the collected data come from) probably is also because those power users I mentioned before did it for them, and all they had to do is to download (or buy) the “ready to use” product that those users made available for them. This, e.g., is something that a bunch of collected data will never underline. But is something that is really important, imo.
Yes I have been saying this all along, this is why I say just going by 'the data' is misleading, to think 'data speaks for itself' is a naive and philosophically unsound assumption (and in some fields, such as science and medicine, which is the area of research I work in, it can be a dangerous one). It is how you interpret the data that is the important thing.
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@LostInFoundation I'm not sure why we always revert back to using examples or discussing what other areas are doing. I can only speak about the community and we use data because we have to understand how it's operating at scale. This doesn't mean we are not having conversation and using qualitative feedback to shape what we do. We are literally here making changes based on one discussion and we obviously understand the importance and value the members in this thread bring. If we were so narrowed in on the data, I wouldn't even be posting.
Same as before: probably the data you can collect will tell you the VASTE majority of users coming here never helped anyone else. Because a bunch of others made it for them. And that’s why this forum has so many members: because it’s so useful thanks to a bunch of guys. But this will not be in the collected data.
It shows, that's one of the main thing we check.
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Ok, interesting to know.
Probably I misinterpreted the “I get stuck into not really fruitful discussions”
My naming what other areas do comes from the fact that imo if users are so nervous and more inclined to discussions and/or misbehaving here in the forum is also because of NI decisions and the way they feel not listened.
If someone comes in the forum because he is angry about something, surely he will not be in the best mood for acting at his best.
Therefore If the discussion is about “why users behave more aggressively” and “what can we do to improve the situation”, this is part of the equation that must be taken in consideration. That’s why I think this aspect is fruitful
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Fair point but we were talking about culture in the community, not necessarily the business decision behind the aggressivity seen in some of the posts more recently. It always goes back to the fact that you can express disappointment, frustration and else while still being constructive and respectful. It's on this foundation that we believe the community can be more open than other branded communities.
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Idea:
The fact is that we are always a handful of people who discuss all those matters, while the forum has thousands members. From experience i can say, that most members are afraid to involved actively, for various reasons. At best, they just click "like", but be sure, many of them they are reading us.
So, why not organize a Poll? Everyone participates in a poll.
With subjects such as, how they feel about NI services, about forum rules, about rewards and so on.
Every option might have 3 or 4 values (Excellent, Good, Medium, Bad) and each member will choose one from each categories. Here i must say that Surveys do not work as good as Polls since they attract much less users.
We here, have may discussing that this option is bad or that option is good and suddenly we might see that 500 members have a completely different opinion.
In this way, the admins will have a much more clear vision, instead of reading the same 30-40 people always. Then they can decide much easier what are the necessary actions for a general improvement, everywhere.
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