What's the general status of Reaktor?

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  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 2,949 admin

    I can confirm that the fact that some products are not listed on the M1/Monterey compatibility page doesn't mean the developers are not working on them. 🙂

  • Jon Watte
    Jon Watte Member Posts: 79 Advisor

    the page you linked in your OP now does include Reaktor 6 in the list!

    This is a great outcome!

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 426 Advisor

    Not being a dev or a technical guy to some extent I’d really wonder why with so many cores and high data/memory transfer rate, read and write speed etc, would a company bother to rewrite everything when Rosetta offers pretty good x86 compatibility. It sounds to me like trying to build another pyramid or world wanders after another. Forgetting also all the compatibility issues with back catalogue and big rants from old users to come. Using/learning, programming on reaktor is almost a life commitment for any user développer and it takes years to master. It would really benefit more of a friendlier UI and more online tutorials. To me reaktor user base is like Vatican library, and is probably biggest NI treasure and achievement. Changing it for the Apple game would probably be a mistake and counting on Rosetta and constant performance improvement would make more sense. It is already so convenient to make music nowadays with all that available processing power . I might be wrong but it’s just how I feel about it

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    The only problem is, that Rosetta will not be here forever. Apple plans to terminate it in few years.... Probably to push Developers to convert their SW to AS.

  • Jon Watte
    Jon Watte Member Posts: 79 Advisor

    "Why would a company rewrite to ARM when Rosetta is good enough?"

    This is the same question as: "Why would a company want to support 200 voices for core when 50 voices per core might be enough?"

    (For whatever specific numbers you want -- obviously a "voice" is quite a fluid concept.)

  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 422 Guru

    Why is this even a question?

    Have you even looked to see how many ensembles make up a huge part of the Komplete Ultimate package?

    Do you really think that is more cost effective to basically scrap so much of their Komplete package and just move on, because they didn't make Reaktor AS, erm, no.

    There is very much a monetary incentive here.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert
    edited April 2022

    NI could remove Reaktor dependent plugins from Apple version of Komplete. Or rewrite them, so that they do not use Reaktor. I guess Super 8 has been Reaktor ensemble first. And later on has been rewritten to "standard" plugin.

  • Calagan
    Calagan Member Posts: 189 Advisor
    edited April 2022

    I don't get what you are speaking about. How can Native could not update Reaktor ?

    It may be complicated, but this is what the dev team is paid for, no ? If they need to get new workers, and/or pay them more, what the ****** ? If your ship is sinking, you don't complain that water is cold and you don't want to repair...

    There's a Mac update almost each year, and a windows update each few years, so they can't just let it go each time the update is more complicated than usually. They will loose any trust from their customer if they let Reaktor (one of their flagship product with Kontakt) as abandonware, because the update is "difficult".

    Specially that in few years, every mac user will run an ARM machine : how can anybody buy or update a NI product, if he doesn't know if that product will still run in few years on his machine ?

    You may be right, but to me it sounds like a commercial suicide, so I can't believe it...

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    I think, NI will make Reaktor native Apple Silicon. If it is economically feasible.....

    We are not speaking about update. We speak about total rewrite of fundamental parts of Reaktor. I would not want be in possition of NI. But if I was, I would probably decide keep Reaktor as long as possible on Rosetta 2, change Reaktor based applications to ordinary plugins. And wait for Rosetta 3.

    Apple users on newer MacOS versions might be few years without Reaktor (if Apple removes Rosetta 2), but NI might avoid massive investments to rewrite it to Apple Silicon.

  • Jon Watte
    Jon Watte Member Posts: 79 Advisor

    Apple has transitioned CPU families several times before -- Motorola 68k -> PowerPC, and PowerPC -> Intel, and now, Intel -> ARM. Waiting for a "Rosetta 3," and assuming that that will be a supported technology for the future, seems like a really bad idea. History shows that Apple will not support the older architecture forever.

  • colB
    colB Member Posts: 1,063 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/11791#Comment_11791

    True. And they definitely don't care about shedding any consumers who don't fit their new philosophy.

    Remember what they did to PC Logic users after buying that company?

    If you're don't fit the new roadmap, or desperately realign yourself, then you are dead to them ;)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    Well, it might be reasonable to wait for Rosetta 3, which (based on statistics how often Apple changes platforms) might be in about 8 years. Two, three more years on fully suported Rosetta 2, than Mac users would have to stay on last supported MacOS that has Rosetta 2 and survive few years like that. or live without Reaktor, or move to Win. Not the best solution for Mac users, but why not?

    With Rosetta 3 Apple would go back to x86, so no porting needed anymore.

    Porting Reaktor fully to AS simply might be too expensive to do it. Maybe it will not be that expensive, but for sure it is hard task. Something like writting third to half of Reaktor from scratch.

  • dysamoria
    dysamoria Member Posts: 6 Member

    I'm glad to hear that Reaktor works in Rosetta 2. I may or may not end up buying an Apple Silicon Mac in the next year... or I might buy a used Mac Pro so I don't have to buy and maintain a Mac AND a Windows PC (I know it's not a bleeding edge gaming machine, but I think an Intel Mac Pro with Windows 10 on Bootcamp would be a lot better than my current state of PC gaming: a dead PC).

    Apple better leave Rosetta 2 in Mac OS for SEVERAL versions, and not drop it prematurely in the next Mac OS, like they did with the original Rosetta...

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