New Computer Migration + SSD?

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Answers

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Interesting, is it just an external NVMe enclosure or is it one of those combo 10-in-1 USB-C Hub etc... I looked really close at getting one of the combo hub/NVMe enclosures but to me I felt like I was just throwing money away by paying for an extra ethernet port and HDMI port that I would never use.

    So here's the link to the enclosure https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHYLRQ2F/ref=emc_bcc_2_i?th=1

    However right now it's taking me to a different version from the same vendor? I'm not sure if they're just sold out or if they no longer make the one I have any more. This is recent, with in the last week or there abouts, so I'm trying to figure out what's going on as well. This is what the one I bought looks like.

    I had been looking for a dual or quad NVMe drive enclosure, but they all seem to suck and don't really have good transfer speeds. The few I did find were only using USB-C so throughput is capped at 10Gbps. When I was looking at previous reviews of the KONYEAD enclosure, I saw someone who had a bunch of them in RAID-0 on a Mac, so now I'm definitely going to have to find another one.

  • Clydesdale
    Clydesdale Member Posts: 11 Member
    edited November 2023

    It's just the enclosure. The Acasis TBU405 or TBU405-ProM1.

    Sorry, I can't yet post links here or would have added the couple options I found for Konyead. I can post images though.

    There were 2 options I found, the one you linked from Amazon and this one from New Egg. Looks like this is yours, yeah?


  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 4,823 mod
    edited November 2023

    I am rather late to the party , so I will just point out that the NVME drives have an endurance/life in terms of PetaBytes/TB that it says it can have written which IMO is also something to consider more than just price and speed ! e.g. :

    Endurance is 3.1 PB for the ADATA Legend 960 MAX 4TB M.2 PCI Express 4.0 x4

    Endurance is 4 PB for the Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB M.2 PCI Express 4.0 (NVMe)

    Endurance is 5,1 PB for the Seagate FireCuda 530 ZP4000GM3A013 4TB M.2 PCI Express 4.0 x4 (NVMe)

    Endurance is a whopping 6,8 PB for the CORSAIR Force Series MP510 4TB M.2 PCI Express 3.0 x4 (NVMe) but is a rather slow drive compared to the others above.

    Please notice that you have to divide the endurance PB number with the TB size to get the endurance per TB !

    (And the above should all be considered as having long/much endurance compared)

    Compared then the really fast Samsung 990 PRO MZ-V9P2T0CW 2TB M.2 PCI Express 4.0 x4 (NVMe) only says that the limited warranty is 5 years/1200 TBW (which would translate into 2.4 PB for a 4TB drive !)

    P.S.

    Of course , if only interested in speed then you could also argue that 600 TBW per TB as offered by the Samsung 990 PRO still corresponds to being able to on average write to the same memory cell around 600 times and that you might never reach that amount of writes. And in the same manner then the Kingston FURY Renegade endurance is a being able to on average write to the same memory cell around 1000 times. But still I think that the endurance given at least to some extend ought also be seen as an expression of the 'quality' of the memory cells !

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    I don't think drive speed is really an issue when using it in an external enclosure, even when using a 40Gbps TB4 or USB4 link. I've yet to see an NVMe enclosure that can actually deliver that speed. While searching for NVMe raid enclosures, I found one only to later discover that each NVMe drive only had a PCIe bandwidth of 8Gbps! What? That's barely faster than old school SATA SSDs.

    I'm not saying faster enclosures don't exist, but in all the searching I've done, outside of something like the $20k iodyne Pro Data, I've never seen a single drive TB4 enclosure that could deliver faster than 3000MB/s. I have no idea why, it could be the PCIe controller in the enclosure, it could be a massive amount of overhead? I grew up in the days of IDE drives, so to me 3000MB/s is still pretty bonkers.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Yeah that's an excellent point about endurance, that's huge in the enterprise world. I don't recall what the Crucial P3 was anymore, but I do remember looking at it when I bought it. It wasn't amazing, but 6 months later and I've barely written 10TB to a 4TB drive. It might sound like a lot, but that's after install the full NI and Arturia sets of instruments. Something I don't plan on doing on a regular basis.


  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    edited November 2023

    That's the one!

    Interesting I looked at the Acasis one, I think the only reason I didn't get it is because Amazon pulled their usual shady business practices and raised the price up so they could mark it down for prime day. So I refused to buy it out of principle LOL I hate Amazon.

  • Clydesdale
    Clydesdale Member Posts: 11 Member
    edited November 2023

    Haha, I feel you there.

    So yeah, I think after all the rabbit holes I went down I'm coming back to square one. You are the only person I've come across (not that more don't exist) that has done what I'm looking to do with the same computer and had functional and quality results for an extended period of time. That's good enough for me and I'm tired of not using my new Mac to create.

    At this point I just want something that works long enough for the inevitable 'new thing' to come along next year that's worth considering. The P3 Plus 4TB is on sale for $179, so I could be up and running for $300 if I pull the trigger.

    One last question. Any idea if the Crucial P4 or P5 is worth considering, or do those specs not jive with the Konyead enclosure?

    Thanks again for your patience and willingness to offer your time and experience. Really appreciate it!

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    No worries, happy to help someone that wants help.

    I have not looked at the P4 or P5, but I did a quick search because I was curious myself and found this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paOEKOUuuDc

    There is of course a speed difference between the P3+ and P5+ plus, but I'm not sure you'd see it in an external enclosure. The max theoretical speed of TB4 is 40Gbps or 5,000MBs. Take some off for overhead, and some more off for PCIe to TB4 conversion inefficiencies etc... So speed wise I don't think there would be much of a difference between the two.

    However, as @PoorFellow pointed out, it's not all about speed. The P5+ has a drive endurance of 600 TB written which is an insane amount. So you could fill a 4TB drive completely full, erase it and fill it up again 150 times. The P3+ has a drive endurance of 220 TB written... which doesn't sound like much when compared to 600TBW. So let me add some context.

    My M2 Studio is fairly new and I got my P3+ at the same time because I planned from the very start to use external storage and not pay for Apple's overpriced internal storage. I don't recall exactly when I got it, but for arguments sake, let's say a nice even 6 months. Since then I've written just over 10TB to it. That's all of the Arturia v Collection 9, the full Ableton Live Suite, Cubase, NI Komplete Collector's edition, a half dozen Steam games etc... basically all the programs I want to have access to on a new computer. But other than updates, that's pretty much a one time deal, sure I might have to wipe my computer from time to time and reinstall stuff or restore from a timemachine backup. But I'm not doing that frequently.

    But let's say I did. 10TB written in 6 months, so we'll call it 20TB in a year. I would have to wipe my computer twice a year and reinstall all of my software for 11 years before the P3+ would be near the end of it's designed life expectancy. Of course there would be updates and other stuff that would probably increase that average, but still... so maybe it's 8 years instead of 11. :shrug:

    Sorry for the rant lol, my point is that outside of a datacenter I wouldn't worry about endurance too much. If you were running a PC and your motherboard had an on board PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe slot, I would say go for the P5+ if you can afford it.

    I don't know how much the P5+ costs, I haven't checked, but unless it's like $10 or $20 more than the P3+, then in our situation it's probably not worth the extra cost. The TB4 link is going to be the main bottleneck.

    Or if you got an extra $20k burning a hole in your pocket, grab yourself one of these. It has 2x TB4 ports for double the bandwidth LOL


  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    edited November 2023

    Minor clarification, and what I get for being lazy and not pulling up the datasheet earlier. So as PoorFellow mentioned TBW is total bytes written, however the video listed the amount in TB so I had thought it was terrabytes written. Second, the endurance on the 4TB P3+ is actually better than 220TB, it's 800TB so safe to say that your computer would probably stop working before the drive lol. Ok that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but it would take a lot for sure.



  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 4,823 mod
    edited November 2023

    Actually then an endurance of 220TBW per TB of drive space is very poor compared. But as you have implied in more posts then the importance of endurance for the individual user may depend on the actual use situation and as well may the importance of the longevity of the drive also. Again one could argue that if you can just download it all again if the drive fails then user may not care at all..

    Also , I am sure that in the end then it has become like one of them almost religious discussions. Everyone have an opinion and there are so many articles and explanations on the internet that there is enough for everyone. And my preferences certainly may not be the same as yours and not the same as the OP's 🙂

    I link to three explanations here below (explanations picked more or less at random)(you might be able to find better yourself !) :

    Difference between SLC, MLC, TLC and 3D NAND in USB flash drives, SSDs and Memory cards

    NAND Flash Technology and Solid-State Drives (SSDs)

    Top Considerations for Enterprise SSDs (Enterprise might not be relevant here at all but document still covers a lot of explanation !

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Yeah it 100% depends on your workload. My point was just for the "average" user, most will never come close to exceeding the endurance rating of their SSD. 220TB TBW might look bad on paper, but it's still an insane number. Like I said, that's 20TB a year for 11 years. Now if you're a content creator and recording high res video, then you probably might want to look at something better.

    I went with Samsung PM9A3 U.2 drives in my ARM server. I only have the 960GB ones, but they're rated at 1 drive write per day for 5 years, which is a whole lot of data.

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