USB Hub Multi Port Adapter Performance
Hi - (my question is at the end) I have an M1 Mac laptop with two USB-C ports - that's not enough for my needs. I bought a hub that has a 100W USB C PD Port which the laptop wall adapter is connected to. The other end is obviously connected to one of the USB-C laptop ports. This gives me three USB-C and two USB-A ports to work with. I'll have a monitor in one USB-C (using the second USB -C laptop port), the maschine+ as a controller (used exclusively as such) in one of the hubs USB-C ports, I have an Arturia key step in one of the hub's USB-A ports, and the final UCB-C port on the hub needs to be used as a 500 GB SSD external harddrive for large sample libraries from instruments like Lores and Piano Colors. So...my question is, will I have any issues with this arrangement? Will I get additional latency from the Maschine+ being in the hub port vs. directly into the laptop port? According to the info on the hub, the ports draw power from the Mac book, not the Mac wall wart adapter (used only for charging), its the Mac that is sending out to the monitor, Maschine+ and the Keystep.I guess that I'll be OK but before I spend money on a large monitor for the laptop, I wanted to check if if everything ill function properly. Thanks for any info.
Here is some info on the hub:
- 5-in-1 USB C Hub: Plug and play, extend a 100W PD port and 4 data ports easily.
- Powerful Pass-Through Charging: Compatible with USB C power delivery to provide high-speed pass-through charging up to 85W (Note: Minus 15W for operation).
- Upgraded USB C 3.2 Gen 1: You can transfer HD movies or large files in just seconds with fast data transfers of speed up to 5Gbps. Two types of ports are equipped to be compatible with your USB C and USB A peripherals.
- Stable and Secure: The USBC to USB A/C hub is designed with an advanced chipset, which ensures stable and secure data transmission. It provides over-voltage, over-current, and short-circuit protection that ensures no harm to your device.
Best Answers
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You should be fine assuming the HUB you picked is of decent quality, 2 MIDI Controllers + and external SSD is not that much. I got cheap hubs and they handle all that + external display all in the same hub without issues.
Will I get additional latency from the Maschine+ being in the hub port vs. directly into the laptop port?
No. That USB-C Port is a ton of times faster than the speed required by the M+ USB-2 connection.
The need of direct to Port connections is basically a thing of the past with really old laptops.
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The bandwidth of thunderbolt is so much higher than what a USB2 device needs that I cant imagine it making any real world difference, not even negligible but I got curious and tested it with RTL Utility and got the same numbers with and without a HUB.
The numbers match what the Maschine SW claims:
I didn't test with a bunch of things connected, still i highly doubt it makes any difference.
@Antonio B asked:@D-One Is there any preferable choice whether I use the drive or the Maschine in the second USB C MacBook port? Or, once again, will it make a very negligible difference?@sunbambino
AFAIK What will require more bandwidth will be your external display, assuming you go for a 4K one, (16 Gbps according to google), If i understood your 1st post correctly it will have it's own dedicated port so you have nothing to worry about as it wont be competing with other stuff, I'm not even sure if this matters because I am not familiar to how USB ports deal with HDMI.
An normal external SSD is not fast enough to saturate the ports neither, especially not a 5Gbps one, if it were an NVME SSD on a good enclosure capable of 20Gbps then maybe... the rest of the devices is just plain old MIDI and Audio, so, you're fine.
So... I'd try to have the display and SSD on separate ports/hubs if possible, the rest doesn't matter as it requires very little bandwidth.
If in doubt, just run RTL utility and test it out, you just need to plug a cable from the output to the input of the M+.
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Answers
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You should be fine assuming the HUB you picked is of decent quality, 2 MIDI Controllers + and external SSD is not that much. I got cheap hubs and they handle all that + external display all in the same hub without issues.
Will I get additional latency from the Maschine+ being in the hub port vs. directly into the laptop port?
No. That USB-C Port is a ton of times faster than the speed required by the M+ USB-2 connection.
The need of direct to Port connections is basically a thing of the past with really old laptops.
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Most probably yes, it will work. However, to be 100% sure, i suggest a USB Hub with external power supply.
Also, yes you will have some additional latency from the Maschine+ connected through USB Hub, but practically it will not affect your "real life" performance. In worst case, with a really poor and cheap hub, 10ms maximum. Much less with a good hub.
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@Sunborn said:
Also, yes you will have some additional latency from the Maschine+ connected through USB Hub, but practically it will not affect your "real life" performance. In worst case, with a really poor and cheap hub, 10ms maximum. Much less with a good hub.
Han? Where did you get that info from? Theres no reason a USB-C (USB 3) HUB would add latency.... 10ms is a lot! I have the exact same reported latency when using direct connection or thru my 25$ unpowered HUB. M+ is just USB-2... Not that it matters much.
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Thanks for the great info :)
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to be honest, i was talking about "In worst case, with a really poor and cheap hub" (since i don't know his device neither i use hubs). 10ms was the maximum latency i found, so i mentioned it just in case. I got this info after searching online, here:
and few other sites too... however, you are right, they refereed to USB2 not USB3, but the member who posted this thread, didn't mentioned USB3... and since many people and many devices still use USB2 (including me) it just came out naturally... 🙄
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@Sunborn Thanks for additional info :) I'm using an M1 MacBook Air - two Thundebolt3/USB4 (3 compatable) ports. The only thing I'm using the usbA ports is for the Arturia Keystep.
@D-One Is there any preferable choice whether I use the drive or the Maschine in the second USB C MacBook port? Or, once again, will it make a very negligible difference? Thanks 🙂@sunbambino
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The bandwidth of thunderbolt is so much higher than what a USB2 device needs that I cant imagine it making any real world difference, not even negligible but I got curious and tested it with RTL Utility and got the same numbers with and without a HUB.
The numbers match what the Maschine SW claims:
I didn't test with a bunch of things connected, still i highly doubt it makes any difference.
@Antonio B asked:@D-One Is there any preferable choice whether I use the drive or the Maschine in the second USB C MacBook port? Or, once again, will it make a very negligible difference?@sunbambino
AFAIK What will require more bandwidth will be your external display, assuming you go for a 4K one, (16 Gbps according to google), If i understood your 1st post correctly it will have it's own dedicated port so you have nothing to worry about as it wont be competing with other stuff, I'm not even sure if this matters because I am not familiar to how USB ports deal with HDMI.
An normal external SSD is not fast enough to saturate the ports neither, especially not a 5Gbps one, if it were an NVME SSD on a good enclosure capable of 20Gbps then maybe... the rest of the devices is just plain old MIDI and Audio, so, you're fine.
So... I'd try to have the display and SSD on separate ports/hubs if possible, the rest doesn't matter as it requires very little bandwidth.
If in doubt, just run RTL utility and test it out, you just need to plug a cable from the output to the input of the M+.
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Interesting...
Cable length is not an issue since hubs have tiny cables to maintain signal integrity but that "10ms from 10 feet" claim from google got me curious and scratching my head, i have no ideia how that would be possible since electrical signals travel pretty dang near to the speed of light, the fastest speed anything can travel in the known universe... even sound traveling from a speaker to our ear is much, much slower....
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Thanks for going above and beyond! Really great info 😁. Based on the info I ordered a monitor and drive and they are arriving tomorrow. I'll be able to put this all to the test. Feeling pretty confident it should work just fine. Looking forward to seeing Maschine on the big screen more than anything!
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@ozon So...everything works...kinda. The monitor only works if connected directly to the Mac. The monitor does not receive a signal if placed in the hub. Weird because the Maschine controller works fine connected to the hub which is a two-directional communication if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps it has something to do with the 100W USB C PD Port - if it were just a basic hub maybe the monitor would work out of the hub OR it has something to do with the cable [USB-C to HDMI]. Maybe if I used the HDMI to HDMI cable and bought an HDMI adapter for one of the ends. I'm more inclined to think the issue is with the cable and not the hub. The other slightly bothersome thing - the Maschine doesn't turn off completely when I power down the Mac because the Maschine is picking up current from the 100W USB C PD Port. So I have to remove the cable or stop charging my Mac - both are a slight annoyance in functionality (why the Maschine+ screens stay lit even in sleep mode is a mystery to me and wonder if that cant be addressed?). I think I'll get a usb cable for the Maschine+ that has a switch :)
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Wait... But wasn't the plan to use the monitor connected directly to he mac's port like you said in post #1?
The monitor does not receive a signal if placed in the hub. Weird because the Maschine controller works fine connected to the hub which is a two-directional communication if I'm not mistaken.
Thats irrelevant.. A 4k monitor and a USB-2 device like MAS controller are vastly different things.
Perhaps it has something to do with the 100W USB C PD Port - if it were just a basic hub maybe the monitor would work out of the hub OR it has something to do with the cable [USB-C to HDMI]. Maybe if I used the HDMI to HDMI cable and bought an HDMI adapter for one of the ends. I'm more inclined to think the issue is with the cable and not the hub.
The purpose of the C port would be to power/charge the laptop... "PD" just means it can negotiate (with Apple's power brick in this case) to receive the correct voltage.
If you wanted the Monitor connected to the Hub you should have gotten one with HDMI Out, it would simplify things. You can't connect a regular USB Port from a hub (or anything else for that matter) to a monitor no matter how many adapters you get, the hub/port has to support "DisplayPort Alt Mode" or "HDMI Alt Mode" afaik...
At that point, you might aswell get a full-on on dock-station rather than a hub, I suspect a dongle would get really hot, real fast.
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I think you've misunderstood me. Don't know what you're talking about with MAS controller. I don't need a "controller". Perhaps when I mentioned the Maschine+ in controller mode?
So anyway, the only reason it was an issue is that the Maschine+ doesn't shut off now that it is attached to the hub when I shut down my computer (for reasons already stated ). I thought I would try going out of the hub to the monitor instead of out of the mac to avoid that issue. So ya, everything works great except for that. I ordered a switch for the Maschine+ USB cable so that issue will be fixed soon.
I was only trying to hypothesize all possible reasons why the monitor wasnt working but obviously, a monitor needs to be attached to the Mac without a hub.
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Yes, "MAS controller" means Maschine+ in controller mode.
obviously, a monitor needs to be attached to the Mac without a hub.
Or a hub with DP Alt Mode, or a hub with HDMI out.
(The reason I re-state this is because others can land on this thread looking for info on what hub to buy)
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MAS - anagram - got it👌As someone who works in visual communications, not the anagram I would choose lol. M+SA makes more sense but what do I know?
I understand the C port purpose - you're right though , good to mention for others benefit.
Makes sense that the M+ in controller is entirely dif beast from monitor but from a lay person's perspective, same port = same juice. But I get it now - a hub can drastically change things - I'm always learning something new. Thx for the help. I'm glad this happened because regardless, I'm glad I'll have a proper on/off switch for the M+. Not really a fan of the screens being lit up while in "standby/sleep" mode.
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😄 haah sorry, that's how NI calls it internally, especially devs so I guess it rubbed off on me. I think it's just an abbreviation.
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