Just received the MK3 keyboard - Feedback

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Answers

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 973 Guru

    Everyone is different in this regard and almost all companies have some form of beta program and always have had which includes user feedback to the development team, so you can still have that. But sending an unstable release into the market causes much greater business risk for everyone and disruption to people that are dependent upon a system working correctly every week and can't be bothered with trying to troubleshoot problems that should have been corrected before releasing a product. Especially if that released product has problems and negative impacts with your installed base of operational software. That's definitely something the vendor should test and certify before releasing it to the public. No one wants to deal with that...unless they want to pay you to identify and help troubleshoot the problems.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,322 Guru

    "No one wants to deal with that...unless they want to pay you to identify and help troubleshoot the problems."

    There are certainly people who enjoy helping identify and helping troubleshoot the problems without being paid... different levels of expectation of for sure.

    What I suggest is a more fluid way of sharing a public beta (with due warning) via Native Access. This would provide a much larger beta group that what currently happens in Centercode. Of course this would also let more of the future roadmap of NI to leak, but that would be a good thing too.

    NI's current use of Centercode for beta testing is not a very vibrant environment. A forum category for Public Beta here in the NI Community would likely yield a lot more useful feedback.

    Native Access could also be a means to offer Legacy Installers. Not the full-featured product management provided on current products, but at least a repository of legacy product versions info with links to some "final version" stand-alone installers.

    "High-Value" Public Beta testers on this NI Community might even earn points towards product discounts.. or an early access/discounted purchase on late beta hardware. This may have lead to a much smoother introduction of the SMK3 product line.

    All the firmware update drama may have gotten shaken out a month ago by a few hundred "High-Value" Public Beta testers that got an early shipment with a... hmmm... 50%.... discount.

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 973 Guru
    edited October 2023

    I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Beta programs. A formal Beta program is the final step in the development process in preparation for release and is pretty tightly controlled in order to avoid "scope creep" on a product that is feature complete. In other words it's not about adding ANY functionality. It's about final stabilization and is typically done through highly committed and known high usage users.

    That's very different from a "public" Beta or a "marketing" Beta which is to expose the product to open wide review and is less about stabilization than it is about customer awareness. Again those are all way too late in the process to make any kind of functional changes or improvements because that's the very end of the development cycle and any functional changes are exponentially harder to implement because of the possibility of impacting what are considered "stable" features.

    Setting these kind of hard line expectations would probably limit the interest in participating in a public Beta, not to mention most people that sign up for public Beta programs aren't typically that committed to providing usable feedback reports on a consistent basis to the development team that will help them gauge how much the Beta was being used, the usage scenarios and the product's level of stability in high usage or complex scenarios. The value to the product is only as good as the commitment of the people in the program.

    From my experience testing in general is the hardest and most complex portion of the development process.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,322 Guru
    edited October 2023

    How things have been, isn't always how thing will be...

    There is a constantly evolving dynamic of data collection and analysis.

    The usefulness of a late stage public beta might prove a lot more beneficial than it used to be... less dependent on intentional interaction.

  • superwotan
    superwotan Member Posts: 24 Member

    Congrats BIF. You are a lucky guy.

    And thank you for the provided info. Most interesting part to me was:

    Upon first powercycle, the KK screen advised me that I needed to provide supplemental power.

    I never got that message, so I assume that I provided all necessary power and therefore it looks like a different problem.

  • mickeyl
    mickeyl Member Posts: 62 Helper


    Not necessarily. The amount of the current drawn may fluctuate depending on the mode (i.e. writing to flash may need more current than booting). If the software only checks the voltage at boot-up, it could as well be a problem lateron.

  • FlipBit
    FlipBit Member Posts: 9 Member

    If you have checked my thread the problem is with S88 Drivers shipped with Windows being with wrong Hardware IDs. S61 and S49 probably are working. https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17741/s88-mk3-drivers-and-firmware-update#latest

  • Chris W
    Chris W Member Posts: 6 Member

    I had a similar issue where the firmware update kept failing. Eventually after trying all of the cables I could find, I managed to get the update installed by plugging a USB -C to USB A cable from the host port on the keyboard to a hub rather than straight into my Mac Pro. The firmware update worked but the keyboard was saying low power plug in a charger cable. Once the update was installed I just went back to the cable that came with the keyboard straight into the Mac and it worked.

    Having said that the keyboard screen is crashing every time it connects to a Kontakt instrument at the moment so I might try a power cable (Why none supplied NI?!!). Seems very buggy to me at the moment though and the firmware update took a good 2 hours to finally figure out.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,322 Guru
    edited October 2023

    Your problem with the Kontakt crashing might be related to Kontakt 7.6.1.

    Reverting to version 7.6 might clear things up.

    Rich_NI Customer Care Posts: 170 mod

    October 19

    In some cases, the latest Kontakt update (7.6.1) is causing CPU spikes and DAW crashes. These issues are currently being investigated with a high priority by our developers.

    In the meantime, we would request that any users experiencing such issues to downgrade to the previous version of Kontakt 7 (7.6.0) via the following link: 

    mac: 

    Kontakt_7_760_Mac.dmg

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vYrco-bfZXK18VWVoEoWLS6HZBd2-oPH/view?usp=drive_link


    Win:

    Kontakt_7_760_PC.zip

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjQtdHYtc-jElijJQOYRkT-eri9NZskH/view?usp=drive_link


    We will provide updates about the fix as and when we have them. Sorry if you have been inconvenienced by any issues with the recent update!

  • xgman1
    xgman1 Member Posts: 26 Member

    On a mac studio and a caldigit TB4 hub, I thankfully had no problems updating the firmware, but I am now anxiously waiting for a new firmware with much needed fixes for the various transport control problems as well as wondering when I'll hear something about my broken expression pedal functions. They are said to be working on the transport thing which could be some weeks. I'm kinda distressed that basic DAW functions that have been staples of all midi controllers for years are borked right out of the gate here. There muct have been very limited in house testing. Anyway, I do very much like the feel and new form factor of this MK3, so I not so patiently wait..

  • Lev
    Lev Member Posts: 11 Member

    My S88 mk3 still don't working, I trying everything above, different computers and still whiteout success.

    Why I'm still feeling like early beta tester? And NI support's give me nothing, only link to troubleshooting,

    they have a special sense of humor.

  • Chris W
    Chris W Member Posts: 6 Member
    edited October 2023

    Finally managed to install and update my S88 MK3 firmware and the unit just keeps crashing. Rolled back to Kontakt 7.6.0 which is more stable in Logic but the keyboard itself just hangs and needs restarting. Doesn't even work when connected directly to Komplete Kontrol. You can touch the rotary knobs for a while and they give a value but don't allow you to change it. Then it hangs and none of the knobs work apart from the mod / pitch wheel. Going to try with a power cable attached and see off that makes a difference. Come on NI, sort it out!

  • TonyB
    TonyB Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    Can spend all this money and go through hell for an installation. I own the previous Kontrol MK1 & 2 and never had any problem but, now, it's getting quite painful. Like someone said, it feels like we are beta testing this thing. I contact support few days ago and still nothing. I am almost tempted to send it back. Can waist time and money.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 994 Guru

    I would probably end up in traction for a week! Yowtch!

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