How is the limiter applied in external mixing mode?

Didier Malenfant · 2022-09-17T06:57:14+00:00

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Read thru some of the knowledgeable articles but for some reason this is still not clear to me. Sorry for the silly question if it is...

I'm running Traktor in external mixing mode via a Rane MP2015.

If I choose to use the limiter and play with the threshold I can hear the limiter working.

My understanding is that Traktor doesn't have any effect on the results of the mixed output, it goes from Traktor to the channels via USB ans then the mixer mixes this and sends it out to the main output.

Does that mean that the limiter is applied to each channel in my case? (that would be odd), If not, where exactly is the limiter applied? How does the recording input in Traktor get affected, if at all? Is there a signal chain diagram somewhere?

Thanks and keep up the great work.

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zephry

I do know that the Autogain is after the effects. That is something that has always annoyed me.

I would assume the limiter is per channel and after effects and autogain. Being per track because you are aiming for a threshold and a consistent level instead of having to boost or lower tracks as much. The new Ozone also has a maximizer so the quieter parts get a boost.

https://blog.native-instruments.com/how-to-dj-with-a-limiter/

Didier Malenfant

https://blog.native-instruments.com/how-to-dj-with-a-limiter/

Thanks. Like I said I looked at the NI blogs and knowledge base stuff I could find (some of them contradict each other with external vs internal settings) but nothing talks about where the limiter is applied in the chain.

I do know that the Autogain is after the effects. That is something that has always annoyed me.

Do you have a link to something that states this? I agree with you if that's the case it is odd.

I would assume the limiter is per channel and after effects and autogain.

I think you are correct. I don't know why I didn't think about just listening to the cue on one single channel. After doing this I can confirm that effects, limiter/maximizer and all is all per channel.

Maximising per-track makes sense, kinda works alongside auto gain. Effects per track makes sense, put echo or filtering on a single channel. But limiting per track? Shouldn't that be done after all the channels have been mixed together? Otherwise it seems...err... limited? (sorry).

zephry

Yeah I'm not sure, I just figured from the blog description it seemed per channel.

The reason I figure effects are before autogain, is when a different track is loaded or autogain is off things like the white noise on the gater change volume. The Mixer effects seem to be routed correctly though.

Sûlherokhh

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/32111#Comment_32111

Another reason to not engage autogain i guess. Good to know. 🦋

zephry

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/32127#Comment_32127

Yeah I keep going back and forth with Autogain.

With the Ozone Maximizer I should be better off, time to try it autogain off again.

Many times I mix only in headphones when the family is asleep.

Didier Malenfant

It would be nice to see a signal chain diagram, both in internal and external mixing mode, to see where the headroom, autogain, effects, limiter, etc... are inserted in the chain.

From the manual:

To protect the audio equipment connected to the MAIN output stage, TRAKTOR uses an integrated Limiter. The purpose of the Limiter is to prevent the signal from clipping by reducing the dynamic range.

I don't think you can achieve this if the limiter is not applied after mixing all the channels together, and I don't see how this can be done in external mixing mode. I could be wrong...

If anyone from NI can chime in that would be awesome!

Didier Malenfant

Bump!

Anyone from NI can confirm that the Limiter/Maximizer is only applied to each channel separately and not on the master channel when mixing in external mode?

djadidai

I suspect the limiter itself is applied to the master out, so even with effects applied the master volume will still be cut by the limiter if the sound is loud enough, but that the auto gain is working separately for every track to keep the loudness as equal as possible between tracks.

what do you say @Jeremy_NI ? Do you know anything about what is asked here in the thread? Peace

Didier Malenfant

I suspect the limiter itself is applied to the master out

In external mixing mode, how would that work?

djadidai

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/35098#Comment_35098

i don’t know tbh. I’m thinking out loud now, but if you set the limiter on, and use external mixing, then channels you use will still auto gain for the level loudness individually per track if auto gain is set on, but how the limiter behaves I’m not sure, either the system recognizes that you are on external mixing so it will be bypassed, while auto gain is still on, or it will still be active, sensing if the auto gain has gained a bit too much for the theoretical master output level combined for the channels actually playing. Depends maybe how you have it connected, rca between S4 channel A to analogue mixer channel A and S4 channel B to analogue mixer channel B? Then limiter won’t register the sound bcs nothing will be routed to master out?

However if you connect the master out rca to a analogue mixer channel, for example channel a or 1, then the limiter will be active for sure.

good question. @Jeremy_NI ?

Pedro_NI

In external mixing mode, the limiter is applied to the individual channels.

Didier Malenfant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/35211#Comment_35211

That's what I thought. So it's only limiting the result of the effects applied to each channel. Thanks for the help!

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