Brand New S-88 Kybd: Losses the MIDI Connection:

Electriceddie
Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine
edited July 29 in Komplete Kontrol

Hi Guys,


Like Madonna said " Like a Virgin".... LOL..

First Post:

I have the Full Komplete Kontrol Ultimate 13 w/ the Collectors Edition.

The issue that I seem to have ( or one of the issues ) is that I can select a Library an start playing and 2 mins / 3-4 or 6-7 mins into playing the Kybd goes dead and I get the Old MIDI Din Jack screen popping up in the window. The Plugin & Browser buttons are dead along with NO Sound. I have to shut down & re-start the kybd to get it to work correctly again. Sometimes I need to re-start the Software. Does not seem to make a difference in whether its being used with Komplete Kontrol thru my "DAW" ( Ableton) or thru Komplete Kontrol as a stand alone set up. Anyone else have this issue and if so what was your fix?


Thx

ElectricEddie

Best Answers

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 207 Saw
    Answer ✓

    First, swap out your USB cable and/or try a different USB port. Also check that your powersupply to the KB is plugged in solidly on both ends.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee AustraliaMember Posts: 677 Saw
    Answer ✓

    It is possible to use any cable as long as it is within the USB spec of 16ft and meets the data/cable requirements. I use custom cables on all my gear because I have a lift desk and need longer cable to the PC as it's also on a draw, no problem.

    What people need to learn more than NI (or any company) making more notices and instructions that people will never read anyway, is more thought into when something goes wrong how to actually step through and test the situation... Basics:101 starts at step 1 of remove everything from the loop that is not needed/not originally part of the product so if you have dropouts or performance problems, take out custom cables, USB hubs and extensions etc and just connect with what is supplied for a test.

Answers

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 207 Saw
    Answer ✓

    First, swap out your USB cable and/or try a different USB port. Also check that your powersupply to the KB is plugged in solidly on both ends.

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Nice Quote....LMAO


    Power never drops. Only loose the MIDI connection.

    I am using a 20/25ft. USB cable bought on Amazon, suppose to be Hi quality. I was thinking of what you suggested and trying the USB Cable that came with the kybd first. Another odd thing is I have been using the same cable with an Arturia Keylabs 61 Mkll for over a year and no issues. Also when the S-88 dies and I check the signal by connecting it to the Arturia 61 kybd, it works fine. Then when I plug it back into the S-88 it works for a few minutes or when I change libraries and then again it locks up. This is also my second New S-88 kybd. Bought one S-88 3 weeks ago returned it a week later and received a New S-88 around the same time.

    I'll give it a shot changes Cables and Ports.

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 207 Saw

    FYI, altho the S88 Mk2 has a power supply, I've never had any luck with anything USB bus-powered over 12 feet... too much line loss for 3.5v, no matter how good the cable is.

    If it is not a port dropping out, then you should start a support ticket here:

    [https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009441878]

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee AustraliaMember Posts: 677 Saw
    edited July 31

    Are you using a power supply with the S88 or just the USB cable to power it?

    any time you have an issue like this you should rule out any cable issues by using the supplied cable. Don’t simply assume because another keyboard works it’s not the cable, could be signals or power draw that is not common between the 2. The S88 has screens and all those LEDs to power so a small drop or hiccup could cause an issue. Also there may be more data being sent and received over a long cable it could cause an issue so rule that out as 25ft is rather long for a USB, I’d only use 12ft without a booster/hub personally.

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Thx, Jester.

    I am swapping the cable to the factory one today and will Test it.


    Thx Again for responding

    ElectricEddie

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee AustraliaMember Posts: 677 Saw

    Would be handy to know for future if you are using only the USB cable to power the keyboard or if you have a PSU connected as well. Could help others to know it is possibly a power drop without a PSU, or maybe enev a ground loop if there is a PSU in the loop

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Hi Jester,


    I am using the USB for MIDI Connection and I am also using the included Power Supply. I was under the impression that the S-88 Kybd needs the Power Supply in order to power up an work...

    Also I did switch from my longer USB Cable (approx. 20ft supposedly good quality bought on Amazon) to the included NI USB Cable. Today switched the cables and I did not have any issues with it loosing the MIDI connection today after 8 hours of playing. I will know in a few days since I am not sure if I got lucky today or it fixed the issue. I will report back


    Thx

    ElectricEddie

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee AustraliaMember Posts: 677 Saw

    Yeah even a "good quality" long cable can still have issues and I am pretty sure you will find that is the cause.

    USB2 specification only allows reliable operation up to 16 feet (5 meters) so at 20ft that is outside the spec and even the best quality cable will not make up for it. While some things may work, the amount of data flowing back and forth may be greater in something like the S series due to the screens and parameter feedback so could cause signals to crash over that distance.

    Usually if you need to go further than that you have to have a balun connection over twisted pair (CAT) cable or some kind of repeater or hub.

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Hi Guys,

    I swapped the USB cable and played with the Kybd toady for over 6 hours and had not issue so far. Granted I was not flipping around thru libraries. Just one sound thru Ableton LIVE, so I will know for sure by the end of the week. But it sounds like the cable is the issue.


    Thx All

    ElectricEddie

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI BerlinCustomer Care Posts: 1,797 mod

    @Electriceddie Longer cables have been the source on some issues with Komplete Kontrol keyboards, so this is probably the reason. Here is a guide on what USB cable you should use with our products:

    Choosing the Correct USB Cable for Your NI Hardware Device

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Hi All,


    Thx

    Jeremy.....

    Appreciate all of the help. Good read om the cable specs.

    Thx

    ElectricEddie

  • WaltervanReisen
    WaltervanReisen Member Posts: 1 Noise

    This was a very usefulpost. I had so many troubles with the S88 connection, especially MIDI dropout, and nothing on the S88 display. I had really no idea that my cable was the source of all these issues.

    NI has to install a USB cable police-force to ensure that everyone uses the included cable, and nothing else than that!

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee AustraliaMember Posts: 677 Saw
    Answer ✓

    It is possible to use any cable as long as it is within the USB spec of 16ft and meets the data/cable requirements. I use custom cables on all my gear because I have a lift desk and need longer cable to the PC as it's also on a draw, no problem.

    What people need to learn more than NI (or any company) making more notices and instructions that people will never read anyway, is more thought into when something goes wrong how to actually step through and test the situation... Basics:101 starts at step 1 of remove everything from the loop that is not needed/not originally part of the product so if you have dropouts or performance problems, take out custom cables, USB hubs and extensions etc and just connect with what is supplied for a test.

  • Electriceddie
    Electriceddie Member Posts: 7 Sine

    Hi Guys,

    Its been about 10 days or so now. So after switching out the long USB cable purchased on Amazon (Where else) LOL... I swapped it out for the USB Cable that came with the S-88 Kybd and have had no issues since then.

    Sounds like the cable was definitely the issue.

    Thx

    For all of the Help Guys..

    ElectricEddie

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