Thinking of Jumping to Tahoe After Several Live Crashes

Don't mean to raise unnecessary alarms, but I had a terrible crash 2 weekends ago, embarrassing and maybe damaging. Been really working hard to figure out why it happened… and I truly can't say. But reading about 5-8 others who recently crashed on these forums and on Reddit… the common denominator is Sequoia. Twice this calendar year I have crashed at important private events (weddings) and both on Sequoia, on different computers AND different versions of Traktor, but both on Sequoia.

Thinking of jumping onto Tahoe. Just curious if anyone has any commentary or advice.

Traktor 4.3 on Macbook M1 Sequoia, 24GB RAM.

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Remcol34

NI still hasn't updated their compatibility list in terms of Tahoe

Compatibility of Native Instruments Products on macOS – Native Instruments

You can always give it a try.. There are messages of users on this forum who say it works fine..

frankle

To be honest - and from almost 20 years of DJ'ing with Mac laptops starting with a PowerBook G4 15-inch, 2005 model - if you have the ability to dedicate a laptop to music - I would be running a few macOS's behind. Basically find one that works and stick to it, hence I am still running Ventura 13.7.6 on my M1 Max, and the only reason to upgrade is if updated versions (that I want to use) of Traktor stops supporting this OS, or I buy a newer MacBook that can't run Ventura.

Don't be afraid of rolling back to an older OS if you want stability. Put it online to authorise your software then use another computer for your downloading and track setup (Mixed-In-Key for example), then USB transfer tracks ready to go.

I also have another older MacBook and a really cheap Windows laptop to test new versions of Traktor before any upgrades, to see if I actually need or want to use the updated features. At the moment I'm 2 versions behind due to beatgrid setting changes, however the upcoming ability to export to USB to use in newer CDJ's (3000/3000X) may make me upgrade.

Vocalpoint

Stability rules over everything else. Especially new and shiny….

djcoryminto

I think from now on, I am going to adopt that strict rule of staying on known MacOS's that are stable like rocks.

The problem is, however, a statistical phenomenon with observing crashes in a given year. Say I crash once or twice a year - of course this is 1 or 2 too many. But we don't know to blame the MacOS in these cases. Also statistically, 1 or 2 unwanted incidents in a year's time does not convey statistical confidence that it's an unstable OS even if we knew it were in fact to blame. IOW, we need a far greater sample size. Is there a benchmark, an authority, a way to know which MacOS's are most stable? Or is it left up to the common lore of these forums?

frankle

Over the years I have upgraded OS only when absolutely necessary, like when a Traktor version supports new hardware like CDJ's that I need to use at my gigs but does not support the older OS.

The best example was after the many USB interrupt issues with Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan that Apple will never admit to, I rolled the exact same MacBook back to Mountain Lion and was fault free for all gigs going forward with that configuration, that I was extremely vocal about on the old forum. When I needed to upgrade, out came my test MacBook (my wife's one at the time, I now have a dedicated test one of my own) and I tested for about a month at home in gig-long sessions (around 4 hours each) before making the jump.

How I chose the new OS … a combination of industry professionals and forums, based around Traktor users, ProTools users and RME users. It might seem like a weird mix, however ProTools are never the first to approve an OS for use with their software and their testing is very thorough, RME users are some of the biggest nerds out there and their driver developers are even nerdier, and all of them will call out the real issues if there are any, and of course here in the Traktor and other DJ forums word generally gets around when there's a solid stable OS release.

All of that being said, we are still dealing with computers and software so a solid backup is always a good thing. I always have a Rekordbox USB SSD plugged in to the CDJ's and although I have not updated it in quite some time, it will allow me to get through any gig.

Vocalpoint

"I think from now on, I am going to adopt that strict rule of staying on known MacOS's that are stable like rocks"

I am a Windows user but I still do not understand the need to ever update an OS - unless a massive (workflow altering) change is forcing ones hand - like your DAW is suddenly not supported any longer or your existing super expensive audio interface drivers are end of life.

For audio work - I cannot think of anything in the overall chain of my DAW requirements that is less important than the actual OS.

All I ever need it to do is function, remain rock solid stable and be invisible when I work. And I need it like this for years at a time without a peep or whine or whimper.

djcoryminto

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/246243#Comment_246243

Thanks for the thorough reply. Your evaluation process makes great sense - I will keep my eye on your posts and also the RME community, regarding MacOS versions. I have an RME Fireface 800 (old now) in my studio (Windows) and love it, altho it never crosses paths with MacOS in my case.

My backup plan includes the following, in no particular order:

a separate Macbook with the same Traktor version installed, with an external SSD (already backed up) with the same Traktor collection.
a secondary Traktor collection, waiting inside the primary Macbook's Documents\Native Instruments\Traktor 4.3 folder. My regular working collection is on an external SSD - so if this crashes/corrupts (as it did last week), when I force-close Traktor amidst emergency, and try to reload Traktor, and the collection doesn't load (say the external drive itself doesn't mount), Traktor would defer to the default location for a collection and otherwise attempt to begin a new collection there, but instead this secondary collection loads. This collection is a bare-bones smaller version of the main, large one; ie, no stems, any lossless files re-encoded to 320 kbps MP3, and having only say tracks that have a playcount > 20, with copies of those tracks located on the same internal disk somewhere. This secondary collection would take up say only 10-30GB including the music files.
an old iPhone media player preloaded with longplay DJ mixes

Kymeia

Even leaving to one side the compatibility issues, I am not aware of any evidence Tahoe is more stable than Sequoia, in fact it is probably way to early to call it on that one. Personally I have not had any crashes at all on Sequoia and this is the first time I can think of where the next version of MacOs has nothing that would even make me want to upgrade, and in fact a few things such as the toy plastic wrapped interface and removal of launchpad that make me not want to.

djcoryminto

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/246250#Comment_246250

This is wise. And I tend to like to update Traktor quickly and update to new MacOS updates as they come in. But i Fully see your logic now. However, I don't know that Sequoia is the answer and do suspect that it's the problem. Considering downgrading a few MacOS versions behind… But not knowing which ones are stable or not, this would seem just as risky as jumping ahead to Tahoe.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/246259#Comment_246259

If I were a Mac user - today - I would be on Sonoma. End stop.

Apple messes with so much stuff year in and year out - one needs to find a safe haven.

Sequoia is still too new and Tahoe is unsupported as of today. YMMV

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/48486/thinking-of-jumping-to-tahoe-after-several-live-crashes

Have you considered getting in touch with our support? Maybe if we could evaluate where this is coming from. We would not recommend to switch to Tahoe, we're still testing our products at the moment and full official compatibility for all products might take a little while.

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/246260#Comment_246260

A touch conservative approach 😉

One Mac OS version behind is perfectly fine on a Mac. Sequoia is very stable, from my experience. But this is Sequoia as of now, with all the bug fixes released in the meanwhile. Not how it was when it has been released a year ago, when it was a steaming stinky mess.

So, best to be one version behind or at least wait for one or two bug fix updates from Apple (which takes 3-6 months) and then update to the latest Mac OS, if one really has to.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/246277#Comment_246277

Even better :)

DJDL

I am on Sequoia, upgraded prob after 6 months of its release. I always wait for like more than half of a system's life cycle before adopting it, thus giving developers more than enough time to iron out any issues with their products. That said, I believe I installed Sequoia on a test Mac as a way to test if Traktor was more stable or at least less prone to ocasional crashes than Sonoma. It was kinda similar, so I ended up installing it on my main computer as well.

djcoryminto

Well, come what may, but i downgraded (or maybe truly upgraded) to Sonoma 14.8.1 today. It'll be hard to say if it's stabler from my myopic perspective. I will sojourn here indefinitely. I say this as TP 4.4 comes out today. Tempting. :)

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