Furious that updating libraries breaks instruments and nothing is done

Spent a long time updating a load of virtual instruments in Native Access to find out that they no longer work in Kontak 7 and that I'm expected to either fork out a load more money for K8 or go through the rigmarole of having to uninstall them all, redownload old versions via the website and reinstall from an ISO. It is a terrible user experience.

No warning, no heads up that a different version of Kontakt is required. Surely it would be simple enough to check what version someone has and only download the appropriate updates? And even if you make a mistake with the updates your response should be to fix it via Native Access, and not put all the onus on the paying customer to fix the mess you have made.

Oh, and your support sucks. I spent 20 mins trying to get your bot to understand and then was asked for a detailed explanation of the issue but then told "max of 180 characters". How the hell can you provide detail in 180 characters? A joke. Then I was told an actual human would come and chat, but after 20 mins of waiting without anyone turning up I gave up.

I've spent a hell of a lot of money on NI products and the fact that at any time an update can completely stop it from working without warning makes me never want to deal with this company again. It seems like this is just a way of forcing people to have to keep forking out money for Kontak versions just to allow them to play the libraries they've already purchased. How is that ethical?

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Vocalpoint

"No warning, no heads up that a different version of Kontakt is required"

Well - firstly there are these - LOTS of them…all over the forums:

And especially this one:

Previous versions of recently updated Kontakt libraries / compatibility with K6 older libraries - Community

Then - there are Release Notes.

Every single library or product within Native Access has Release Notes - telling you exactly what version of Kontakt will be required - if you choose to Update.

AND - you could also consider installing Kontakt 8 Player - it is free and takes care of all of the above as well.

But if you simply can't be bothered with any of the above - we now have this:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/account/downloads/

Which allows you to download any older version of any effected library.

If you are expecting Native Access to be re-written to warn you about an impeding update for a version of Kontakt you do not own - you will most likely be waiting a long time.

In the meantime - slow it down just a tad - check the forums and the release notes or have K8 Player on hand and all your troubles can be avoided.

Monochrome

~~Just FYI and ICYMI: You actually don't have to fork out anything, as Kontakt 8 has a free Player version available - just like previous versions had one:~~

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-8-player/

Edit: Vocalpoint already mentioned that. I was too slow 😅
Mods, feel free to delete my post.

DanDiplo

"Well - firstly there are these - LOTS of them…all over the forums:"

"“There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now. … What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, it’s only four light years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout. Energize the demolition beams.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

I never even knew these forums existed until I needed support. We are told to use Native Access to update libraries. That is where the warnings should have been; in fact, any decent software would have not even allowed you to install an incompatible update (and I say this as a professional software developer).

Nobody should have to trawl through forum posts to find out essential information.

Vocalpoint

"Nobody should have to trawl through forum posts to find out essential information"

Not disagreeing with you - but that is all we have right now.

That and Release Notes - front and center in Native Access.

So - you can either take the tips as offered and save yourself hours of hassle - or don't and blindly continue to click "Update" in Native Access. Your call.

LostInFoundation

Sometimes I really don’t understand you…

You are aware too that NA should work better and not allow updates that break things… but, for the sake of having the joy to call others wrong, you criticize them anyway…

MLARS

Why no have a install/update warning popup if Native Access identifies you only have Kontakt 6 or Kontakt 7 and the latest update/install require Kontakt 8 + offer alt versions if possible.

Why not release multiple SKUs (editions) if they can make it work with their release rollout. Why not have a shiny facelifted version with Kontakt 8 but still support an older Kontakt 6 or Kontakt 7 version too as part of the life cycle management.

PK The DJ

Although I agree that NA should be a little smarter as an installation aid, and not list updates that require newer software than what's installed…………….I also think that the user does have some responsibility to check before jumping straight in.

The same would be true with computer OS. If new software comes out, check it works with your OS first.

The user is aware they have an old Kontakt version, so should really be cautious about installing software updates a year after the release of Kontakt 8.

It's the usual "first post rant" we see around here. I don't think VP said anything out of place. He just addressed some of the claims in the post, based on info given.

stephen24

Don't agree. Not even slightly helpful or constructive. There are so many problems reported here that could easily be solved by the authors with hardly any new code. Undermining people who complain about them is not useful.

When you write a post for the forum, before you upload it, why not try the "Thumper's Dad" test:

(From Bambi)

-What did your father say this morning?

-"If you can't think of anything nice to say…" (fidgets a bit) "…don't say anything at all."

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/240095#Comment_240095

Better yet, why not read the requirements posted for a library before purchasing it? I would understand this kind of reaction from my 9 year old granddaughter because she doesn't understand what it takes to be a functioning adult yet.

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/47627/furious-that-updating-libraries-breaks-instruments-and-nothing-is-done

First of all, our sincere apologies for the trouble you are having with our products and our support. I'm forwarding your feedback regarding support.

Regarding the issue in itself. We do know it's an issue for our customers. I totally understand your frustration. It is a very complex issue and we have already put a few things in place, so saying that nothing is done is not accurate.

Now, there is a warning in the release notes of the libraries mentioning the new Kontakt version minimum requirement.

There is now a download manager where you can download older versions of the libraries: How to use the NI Download Manager

Also worth mentioning. NI libraries only require Kontakt 8 Player and it's free so this has nothing to do with pushing people to buy the full version as it's not needed.

There is an auto migration system in place for Kontakt versions for a lot of DAWs already, that makes these issues less problematic: Notes about Auto-Migration of Kontakt Versions in DAW Projects

Again, we are conscious of these issues and we are working on it but it's a very complicated issue, with a lot of dependencies, a huge lot of Kontakt libraries, both NI and third party.

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/240095#Comment_240095

If this was as simple as that it would have been fixed a long time ago.

Please read the reply to OP for more context.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/240110#Comment_240110

This. 100%.

So many issues would be "non-issues" if users would simply take 5 mins to dip a toe in the pool inside of diving straight in.

stephen24

Actually 9-year-olds are pretty good at computers. I've had a lot of help from 9-year-olds in my time.

If people are saying that the OP is stupid, then there are an awful lot of stupid users out there who have had this problem. And there will be more.

And if I were the OP I would take exception to the word "rant". Are we not allowed to complain?

And Jeremy, the issue is not complicated at all. All that is needed is a pop-up warning in Native Access when you click on "Update" - "Please check that this update will be compatible with your version of Kontakt" or something like that. No extra code.

Vocalpoint

"All that is needed is a pop-up warning in Native Access when you click on "Update" - "Please check that this update will be compatible with your version of Kontakt" or something like that. No extra code."

Must admit - I do love the way some armchair programmers make everything sound like it's a one liner they can bang off later this afternoon, check it in, test it and problem solved.

I can think of about 20+ scenarios surrounding the choices the code would need to parse at any given time - considering the vast amount of product that NA manages.

Sorry - but this would not be a pop-up.

@Jeremy _NI already stated the challenge (and so have many others) - if this was easy - it would be done.

DanDiplo

"So - you can either take the tips as offered and save yourself hours of hassle - or don't and blindly continue to click "Update" in Native Access. Your call."

But that is the problem is a nutshell. NI have pushed us to use Native Access. They tell us it is, "The improved way to manage all your Native Instruments software". I use probably half-a-dozen different music managers for my music software alone, like Toontrack and Izotope, and not a single one of those has ever installed an incompatible update. I expect to be able to "blindly" click update and for the product to work.

And I'm a technical user. I built the PC I'm writing this, I work as a programmer and am very familiar with IT. Dependency management is something that is very common in software - it is known as package management, and the way you update modern software is via package managers which do dependency checking ie. they check that X is compatible with Y before installing it and warn you if it isn't. Whilst there are challenges around this, it's really common place in software.

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