Ableton Link - timeline position marker won't follow

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CakeAlexS
CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member
edited July 3 in Maschine

Hi

I tried to get Studio One 7.2.1 to sync with Maschine 3.2 via Ableton link, both apps have link "enabled" and "Start stop sync".

… and it does sync BPM, and starts/stops the transport etc, but it loses it's place in the timeline, plays from different positions and does not stay in sync. It mostly "rewinds" to the beginning of the song when I need it to.

I've tried to do the same Ableton Live 10 and Maschine 3.2 and I'm getting similar results.

(Windows 11).

Any ideas?

Thanks.

EDIT - I guess I should try Studio One and Ableton Live next to see if it makes any difference.

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Answers

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,775 Expert

    I'm pretty certain Ableton Link doesn't support location info. It's only for tempo syncing.

    If you're jumping around the timeline in one app and want the other to follow, you'll need to use MTC or SMPTE (etc).

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,784 mod

    Indeed. Link is meant to be a Jam Session aid to stay in Sync across multiple gadgets and not a rigid timeline follower thing. It should stay in Sync tho, not sure whats going on over there.

    Theres some fancy stuff like "Phase Synchronization" to avoid devices in the session to not end up in strange places time-wise, but that's it.

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member
    edited July 5

    So as an exercise I stopped using Ableton link and sync'd Studio One 7.1.1 (master) with Ableton Live 10 (slave)..

    The best method was to use Midi Time Code as it follows the timeline, I just have to remember to set BPM correctly at both ends.

    Then I tried Maschine 3.2.0 as slave (replacing Ableton Live 10), it appears there is no support for MIDI Time Code?? Surely this is useful in Song mode?

    Thx.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,784 mod

    Hummm Not sure what that even is but I tried MAS 3.2 set to Receive Clock and Ableton set to send it and the timelines sync's just fine…

    Altho for some reason Maschine 3 has the BPM in double-time while Maschine 2 detects the BPM normally.

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 940 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/233248#Comment_233248

    the double time aspect can occur if the clock receiver is receiving 2 sources…

    often caused by a midi feedback loop

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member

    Hmmm I can get Maschine 3.2 (master) to send MIDI Clock to Ableton 10 (slave) without issue.

    But I can't get Ableton 10 (master) to send MIDI Clock to Maschine 3.2 (slave)…. screenshots below.

    Using LoopBe

    m1.png m2.png
  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 940 Guru
    edited July 5
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/233264#Comment_233264

    your loopbe midi clock out needs to be going through the midi-out as opposed to what your picture shows with the midi-in

    scroll further down to see the midi-output's

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member

    So like this for Maschine to run as

    out.png

    But I can't get Ableton 10 (master) to send MIDI Clock to Maschine 3.2 (slave)

    So like this? Really?
    It didn't work unfortunately.

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 940 Guru
    edited July 5
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/233275#Comment_233275

    i was referring to the picture of ableton you had posted… which shows the clock set on the midi input side…

    the clock should be going out of the midi outs… if you scroll down.. you will see the midi output

    while on the maschine side… you tick the loopbe on the midi-input side… becos its receiving..

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 940 Guru
    edited July 5

    another… method of syncing which is possible with maschine and ableton…

    is using the follow tempo… whereby you can send a audio input signal into channels 1+2 of ableton.. and then ableton will send a clock out, based on the timing of what ableton deems to be rhythm/drums

    which you can then sync in maschine with the receive clock…

    just enable the "show tempo follow" inside the ableton midi settings tab…

    just something worth knowing about…. useful if wanting to sync up with a youtube clip.. or a audio application that doesnt have any sync options … results of syncing with follow tempo will vary

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member
    edited July 5
    rev1.png

    Ah gotcha - sorry, so I didn't scroll down!

    This works (and makes sense!). Thanks….

    Although sadly Maschine won't follow the timeline accurately when I skip a few bars, rewind or whatever. Only seems to detect stop which starts everything from the beginning.

    I've tried in Ableton Pattern and Song mode.

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member

    So Ableton can only send out MIDI Clock and not Time Code?
    But it can receive Timecode I notice!

    Hahah - it's a ruddy nightmare!

    Studio One can only receive Timecode and not MIDI Clock.
    Maschine has works with MIDI Clock.

    And Ableton Link doesn't handle the timeline/time markers/cursor at all really.

    For the love of gawd bring back ReWire!

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,775 Expert

    ….but why are you even trying to run two separate programs at the same time?

    Isn't that why we can run Maschine as a plugin? 🤔

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member
    edited July 5
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/233291#Comment_233291

    Because running Maschine as a plugin within a DAW, which is actually a plugin that hosts multiple plugins, synths, samplers etc, and all the rest of it, takes a lot of CPU, and can spike cores.

    Most DAWs evenly distribute CPU load/cores across channels/tracks giving limited resources to plugins. Often they only supply one CPU core for task.

    When you run it as a standalone application none of those limitations apply, although the performance of the standalone app is not exactly perfect either.

    It's kind of a miracle that the plugin with all it's (mostly understandable) bloat works at all.

    BTW I'm not wanting to use Ableton, I'm using Studio One which comes with its own set of oddball bugs and lack of features, I'm just testing with Ableton and then applying that knowledge with Studio One to see if it works (or not).

  • CakeAlexS
    CakeAlexS Member Posts: 78 Member
    edited July 5

    Further thoughts, I would dearly love to see NI supply a barebones VST3 plugin that would link the MIDI and Audio to the standalone Maschine application, a bridge so to speak. Dream on I guess.

    In the meantime we have loopBE and loopMIDI. I've tried loopBe and that seems to be getting overloaded.

    I've actually got a secondary audio interface (Safire Pro 40) that links audio via ADAT so I can get the audio into my DAW easily (well it's 8 more channels).

    I think that might be the way forward especially if I connect it's MIDI interface to my primary audio interface (Quantum 2626) and then I will have some flexibility recording MIDI notes between sequencers too (and dump the virtual MIDI cable).

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