Komplete upgrades and the missing Apple Silicon roadmaps...

Raw Copy
Raw Copy Member Posts: 2 Noise

So, here I am a Komplete 12 user and we've the 50 per cent discount on Komplete 13 about to expire at the end of this month and I'm wondering: is there any point in upgrading?

The issue for me is the lack of clarity around support for Apple Silicon computers (aka. M1/M2 chips). Yes, there is Rosetta 2, but that code translation utility is for convenience during this Intel-to-Apple Silicon platform transition period. Rosetta 2 has performance overheads and shouldn't be regarded as an enduring solution. And it will be gone in a fews years, as was the case with the original Rosetta. 

I am trying to plan ahead as I look to buy an Apple Silicon Mac and yet I've no idea if there will be support for some of the classic instruments in Komplete, which haven't been updated in years. For example, will Absynth and FM8 go the same way as Pro-53? And if that were to happen, then maybe it's time to stop investing in Native Instruments and consider alternatives.

Look at it this way, if you go to the Arturia site, it provides information for its various products regarding what's supported and what's being phased out, but Native Instruments just keeps you in the dark. And to be clear, I don't own a single product by Arturia, however, when it comes to planning system upgrades and what software instruments will be supported, this transparency makes everything easier.

It seems like the only thing to do is skip the Komplete 13 upgrade offer and wait for Komplete 14, which could even become subscription-only: Komplete Now Pro, anyone? Let's hope not. Still, as there's no compatibility roadmap, it makes planning impossible. I'm not asking for NI to give away what's coming next in terms of new products bundles, but clarity on existing products and a timeline for native Apple Silicon support would be good manners, in my view.

And talking of manners, if the company wants its users to stay loyal, how about rewarding existing Komplete users with a unique discount code in Native Access so they can buy Kontrol hardware without paying for the bundled software all over again? To me, it's like you've gone to a shop and bought a jacket and some time later you go back to the shop for some trousers and you're told you can only have the trousers if you buy the jacket again. This isn't the way you cultivate customer loyalty. It suggests the company is perhaps greedy, desperate or daft – perhaps all three. I'm sure Native Instruments can do better than this, but will it?

Comments

  • paudo
    paudo Member Posts: 1 Noise

    Yeah, have to agree it is worrying. I like NI products but they have this tendency to get stuck in some sort of Groundhog Day. I'm thinking of support for resolution independence/HiDPI also.

    Totally agree that lack of transparency is really off-putting and making me question my investment going forward.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    Well, it is simple. Buy that what has the features you need, or you know you will need in future, now. Buying on promisses, that some features will come in future might work, but often does not work at all.... I have experienced many times that plans/promisses have not become reality.

    And the reason why NI does not publish roadmaps is, IMHO, that someone might sue them for financial loss, if they are delayed or if they change plans/priorities, later on....

    I understand that it is unpleasant for Mac users, but Apple has caused this situation, not NI. And conversion to Apple Silicon should be paid upgrade, IMHO, not for free. That is the core of the problem. Cost of porting to AS...

  • Monochrome
    Monochrome GermanyMember Posts: 138 Tri

    "And the reason why NI does not publish roadmaps is, IMHO, that someone might sue them for financial loss, if they are delayed or if they change plans/priorities, later on...."

    This could be circumvented by adding a forward-looking/safe harbor statement, though?

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    Maybe, but you know lawyers..... More safe is just not to promise.... And, what value would have promise that may or might not become true?

    I remember, NI has promised that Massive X will be released til certain date.... And it was delayed few months, and not realy completed. And still now, one reads how bad it was and so on....

    People are complaining if there is no roadmap, people are complaining if things do not go along road maps and things more do not go along roadmaps than do go.... The best solution is no public roadmaps, IMHO, ....

  • Impermanence
    Impermanence Member Posts: 47 Tri

    Since conpetition is really high at the moment, there should be a roadmap.

    It looks like Akai visited this forum, read the requests and delivered.

    Other companies are giving promises and keeping them.

    I really enjoy working with Maschine but I would’t recommend investing to it for anyone ATM.

    I have been investing into this ecosystem for about three years. During that time only real Improvement for me has been the clips mode. Autosampler is worth the mention although not my cup at the moment. Oh, and Maschine Jam was killed.

    There has been horrible updates. Once there was a screamer. Yes, A screamer. Potentially dangerous. Never forget.

    And for me it seems that M+ is getting all the attention. At the same time it doesn’t really work as it should. Forum is filled with complains….It is Not filled with happy people making music and sharing the fun.

    Future of sound….How about present?

    Blame the Apple, blame Eve, and blame Steinberg.

    I believe professionals can make a roadmap and follow it. It is about corp culture.

    I am really waiting for the bomb update from NI. My wallet stays in other pocket until then.

    I feel like the stability has gone a bit up with Maschine software and M1. That is nice.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    Users blame NI because the OP started saying how other brands manage better the situation (Arturia) so it’s doable. Period.

    Everything else are excuses.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    NI also published that will port their pluginns AS. Just not telling when, as well as Arturia. So, what is the difference?

    "We are working to ensure full native support for Apple Silicon across all of our current products."

    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014683497-Apple-Silicon-M1-Compatibility-News

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse
    edited June 27

    And today:

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/3733/vst3-support-how-is-it-going

    @Matt_NI wrote:

    Some news!

    The team shared with us that we are moving ahead with VST3 and are actively implementing VST3 support for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol. The decision was made to implement VST3 support for all third party VST3 plugins. The timeline is still under consideration but it seems we’re aiming for a public release in the next 3 - 4 months (with enough time for a beta for those on centercode). Native compatibility for Apple Silicon will come along with it.

    We’ll keep you updated whenever we hear more about the progress.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    At this point those 4 months could mean 6 like M+ update delay.

    That’s what happens when you as brand let users blame Apple for your own faults: users start to lost trust in the brand.

    If they don’t deliver on that “time spot” next xmas could be a nail in NI coffin…

    Let’s hope I’m wrong this time.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    You are unsatisfied, if there is no roadmap, you are unsatisfied, if there is roadmap....

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski United KingdomMember Posts: 72 Tri

    I am, for once, satisfied. I can certainly wait until the end of the year.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    Roadmaps usually aren’t open to the public and when these work it doesn’t care at all. The issue becomes when it seems there isn’t one (or it’s not clear) and people ask about disclosure because that’s the first step about losing trust: questioning.

    Then the brand can hear or not these criticism but, again, if delivers product then it’s ok. Users can keep working.

    The problem here is NI isn’t delivering faster enough due technical debt (too much historical x86 dependency) and “clear roadmap” (almost to users) so maybe inside the headquarters all is under control but outside them people gets upset and worry about other brands delivering which NI states “too hard” asking for patience or unmatching their own roadmaps like M+.

    But hey! The problem is Apple and users because there isn’t issues with windows at the forum or hardware issues with S4mk3 or internal beaurecracy issue… of course mate, of course…

    Keep blaming others, keep trying user base as idiots and don’t deliver in 4 months… then we will see what happens next xmas when competition deliver or Apple release new hardware. It’s what happens when you as brand say are aware of disruption but certainly you aren’t.


    Once again, I hope being wrong and NI delivering in time (as promised by NI management itself when I pointed this concern directly at them). Summer can be hard time of year due holidays, let’s hope this has some influency into slow release…

    Let’s talk again on october and see how is going then ;)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    Roadmaps often do not work. SW development is often delayed. Often pretty much. That is how real world works...

    One may like it or dislike it, but it is so.

    Having x86 codebase is not technical debt. ARM tablets/phones is not NI target platform. And ARM notebooks are here for less than 2 years...

    None of us know, what makes NI to be slower than others. It may be many reasons....

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    Sure… the topic where your post about vst3 came… how is going? It’s just me against optimism or it seems something structural?

    Delay over delay, technical debt from long ago now getting worst due bad AS transition analysis…

    The hint about Traktor being first in some fields and improvements on it translated into others (maschine, komplete) has more inherent info than you can (or want) to see but I’m not going to spoil you. If NI delivers you will understand by yourself.

    In the end there weren’t too much options and I told you these time ago. We will see…

    ;-)

  • Raw Copy
    Raw Copy Member Posts: 2 Noise

    I think that's a fair assessment. The roadmap for me was about the fate of existing products, which Arturia had covered. I'd never expect a company to be specific about previously unreleased products. Another interesting take from this discussion is the deafening silence regarding my initial question. Absolutely zero respondents have recommended that I upgrade from Komplete 12 to 13. The 50 per cent discount ends tomorrow, so I guess I'll skip it this time. Thank you all for your insights.

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